I think I might have ick in my tank

[michealprater]

I purchased three fish and put them in my tank. I will admit I did not quarintine them so please do not chastise me on that subject, just answer the questions I ask. Thanks.

I got a blue tang, potters angel and flame angel. Yesterday I noticed the tang was scratching on rocks. No visible problems but he could have ick in his gills. I also noticed one white spot on the flame and the potters. It looked more like dust from the rocks and whatnot but I wanted to be careful so I went ahead and put my newly purchased 15w UV sterilizer on my tank. It has been running for one day.

Now for the questions.

What effects will the UV have on my corals? I know they kill zooplankton but will it effect my corals really bad, or just a little bit?

These fish have been heathy at the store for weeks, so that leads me to believe my tank to be the problem. However, how come my clowns, yellow tang, neon dottyback and damsels have never had any problems? Is it because I keep my tank at 82 degrees and soak everyone of their meals in garlic?

The fish are eating really good and look very fat and healthy. I guess I am more concerned what the uv will do to my corals. I belive my fish will be ok, but it baffles me because if there is ick in my tank I am sure the yellow tang would have picked it up by now, hes been in there like 6 months.

Let me know what you think.thanks

 

[reefrunner69]

I will admit I did not quarintine them so please do not chastise me on that subject

Well, I know I've done the same thing, so no chastisement here

Yesterday I noticed the tang was scratching on rocks. No visible problems but he could have ick in his gills.

Could be ick, but it also could be the behavior of the tang. IME, Regal blue tangs (Paracanthurus hepatus) are prone to giving their owners heart attacks by scratching against rocks. I've never had one or seen one that didn't appreciate a good scratching, much to the owners chagrin. Right now, I wouldn't fret too much, until you see some visible signs of ick.

It looked more like dust from the rocks and whatnot

That's probably what it is.

What effects will the UV have on my corals?

None what so ever.

I know they kill zooplankton but will it effect my corals really bad, or just a little bit?

Not at all, IME, UVs do not depopulate the plankton in the tank that much. Most of the multicellular organisms that pass through a UV survive the first trip through, the catch 22 is that in order for your UV to be efficient enough to kill everything that passes through it, the flow rate has to be very slow, to increase contact time with the UV radiation, so for the water to be slow enough for a high kill rate, you do not turn over enough water to be efficient. Also the only thing that can possibly be killed by it, must leave the tank and pass through the sterilizer. IMO, a 15W UV is nowhere near big enough for a 100g tank (I am assuming it's on your 100). But it may be enough to keep things at bay and give your fish a little time.

These fish have been heathy at the store for weeks, so that leads me to believe my tank to be the problem.

Doubtful. The parasite is almost always present, it is just when the fish is weakened or stressed that it becomes a problem, this is, of course, a side effect of moving the fish from their old home at the LFS to the new tank.

 

[michealprater]

Thanks for the advice Kevin. Can I or should I run my UV sterilizer 24-7? I was told that I only needed 9w for a 100, I got the 15 to be safe. Maybe I will sell it and get me a 36 watt model.

 

[reefrunner69]

Can I or should I run my UV sterilizer 24-7?

Yes you can, should you??? I don't see why not.

I was told that I only needed 9w for a 100, I got the 15 to be safe.

It really depends on the model and the flow rates. I haven't used one for many years, have a couple in the closet that have been there for a while, so I am not familiar with the new designs. The double helix sounds promising, but after Hara's post a few days ago, I would question their longevity.

 

[Hara]

I ran the 36 watt sterilzer non stop on the 150 from before christmas until the day we moved things to the 175. Corals grew wonderfully well, fish stayed healthy....so did the cyano...but nothing can combat my overfeeding apparently

 

[michealprater]

Man that makes me feel a whole lot better. I was really nervous about running a uv on a reef. However hearing of accual experiece really means alot, rather than someone saying they "heard" it wasnt good.

Anyone else have similar experieces?

 

[michealprater]

Kudos to you guys.

I will give others kudos for their opinions on this subject.

 

[Guest]

I will add something to this, The UV will do nothing for the ICH on the fish. It will only kill what is water borne and gets in the flow of the UV. I did the same thing with my Yellow Tang and it had ICH. For 3 days it scratched and scratched. To the point that scales were missing from one side... None of the other fish were affected. I moved The YT to a QT and dosed with Formalin for 3 days and then placed it back n the main tank. So far it is healthier than ever.

I run my 8 watt Rainbow Lifegaurd UV 24 7. I think it is more than sufficient for this tank. and I have the maximum flow going through it.. 250gph.

No signs of ICH or anything bad in the tank right now. I think you have enough on the tank with your UV. Remember, that the more watts may be even more detrimental to the parasites but create a lot of heat also... I have read that an 8 watt UV is good for up to 75 gal.. so, I would think the 15 is good for at least 125.

UV will also rid the tank of free floating algae cells since most of the nuisance algae are single cell organisms also.

 

[michealprater]

I will add something to this, The UV will do nothing for the ICH on the fish. It will only kill what is water borne and gets in the flow of the UV. I did the same thing with my Yellow Tang and it had ICH. For 3 days it scratched and scratched. To the point that scales were missing from one side... None of the other fish were affected. I moved The YT to a QT and dosed with Formalin for 3 days and then placed it back n the main tank. So far it is healthier than ever.

I have not personally experienced anything except what I am doing right now. However I have heard of people saying they had a fish get over ich by using a uv sterilizer. I am not 100% sure they even have ich yet, just a hunch. My tank is at 82 degrees and I am feeding food soaked in garlic (fish are getting garlic for sure as they have great appetites). All that and running the UV sterilizer I think my fish should be ok.
Kudos to you timbo for your responce. Thanks for your input.

 

[Guest]

If the immune system is good and they are good eaters, they may ward it off themselves...???

 

[rthoman]

I have heard that they can get over it themselves. One of the LFS's here uses UV on all his tanks. He has a 700+ gallon tank with 4 huge UV's on it. He believes strongly in using them. I even heard him ask someone if they had one, they said no and he told them to get one before he would sell them a Powder Blue Tang.

 

[michealprater]

From the way it looks my fish are going to be fine. It has been three days and they are still active and eating. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[michealprater]

I asked Dr. Ron Shimek the same questions here is what he had to say.

Hi

... just answer the questions I ask.

In my forum I will pretty much answer as I choose.

What effects will the UV have on my corals? I know they kill zooplankton but will it effect my corals really bad, or just a little bit?

Properly adjusted it will kill all plankton that passes through it. It will not effect your corals directly.

However, how come my clowns, yellow tang, neon dottyback and damsels have never had any problems?

Ich organisms are probably present in most tanks. They become apparent on the fish when the fish are stressed. Introducing new fish causes stress.

Is it because I keep my tank at 82 degrees and soak everyone of their meals in garlic?

Probably this is irrelevent.


__________________
Cheers, Ron

I found it humorous that he said he would answer whatever he wants on his forum. Cant really argue with him there. He said it would kill the plankton but not affect corals, I thought corals need plankton as food. I also dont understand why the temp and garlic are irrelevent.

Anyone have thoughts on this. I know Kevin is a big Dr. Ron fan.

 

[Hara]

hmmm, lots of probablies.....

I find it hard to listen/read him just because of his overall tone..I find it condescending and offensive. (yeah, I know those werent the thoughts you were asking about )

 

[michealprater]

I must say I agree with what you said about his tone. Ive asked him two questions and he always talked down to me.

One time I asked him what his thoughts on keeping multiple angels together. He said "I never have and dont plan to, so it doesnt matter to me." I could not belive he could not make it sound a little more polite.

If he does not want to do the job he should quit and just be a member. Every read his stickies? Sounds like he hates what he is doing. What a waste of his vast knowledge of the hobby.

 

[Guest]

Don't let that bother you MP,

You know, I know a lot of people with degrees and years of knowledge in something. It definately does not mean they know it all. In fact, the more they worship themselves, the more bull$h*t comes out of their mouths. (I do not mean this to be offensive to none other than the source provided) I don't care how much he praises himself, he is not the best there is, and definately not the last word on the subject.
I look at it like this, Computer systems are evolving everyday, but if I told you how you could fix up that old 486, you would laugh at me, because in todays standards, it is not even worth the metal that was used to build it. Hmm
There are advances in this hobby that far surpass anything he has contributed. There are more people out there with actual PHD's in Marine Biology and not just Biology.

I have read a lot of the threads in his forum and would have to say, I have seen more contradictions in his own words to even consider him a source of good advice these days. I also do not like the way he is condescending either, can't you tell?
I get more out of this forum in the short while I have been a member, than I will get out of him in a lifetime... He is old and washed up in IMO.

Oh yeah, his last line in the Biography:

Am fat, balding and arrogant. All else subject to change without notice.

 

[Guest]

I would like to add that I don't mean the man is not educated. He is. His attitude does not earn merit from me.

 

[reefrunner69]

I know Kevin is a big Dr. Ron fan.

While I think he is extremely knowledgable in some subjects, I think he is a jerk and he is not my guru. I think he pretty much echoed what I already said, but I was a hell of alot nicer. I come off bad in some of my posts, not sure where the problem is, I'm likable enough in real life, but as long as Dr Ron is posting, I am thankful. When people think I come off heavy handed or arrogant, I can point to him and say, I am not the most arrogant reefer on the net.....

 

[fishfreek]

Just a few things to add.

The reason a UV unit really wont damage your corals is because it is only going to KILL those things that come into direct contact with the light. While a properly configured UV as Dr Ron said will kill all plankton that passes through it what it wont do is kill plankton that does NOT pass thru it.

Unless you have a very HIGH wattage UV bulb on your tank with it inline with your main circulation pump so the water in effect comes into contact with the UV several times an hour you wont run into a case where its killing to many benifical things.

Ich is a parasite that has various live stages and only 1 of those stages is visable to us in the white spots on the fish. You should consiter your tank at risk of an ich reinfestation for a period of 1 month after you see ich leave the fish's body.

In addition the UV filter will be of little help to the ich parasite when its doment in the substrate. The only real time the UV would come into play would be when the parasite is in its free floating stage in a search for a host. Or immediatly after the cists burst on the fish and release the larva back into the water column and before they have a chance to settle onto the rocks and substrate.

As you know keeping yoru tank warmer will help fight off the parasite as it can not handle the warmer temps as well as the corals and fish.

The garlic comment I am supprised at. I would not have suspected Dr Ron to be using something that has not been found to be scientificly benifical to fight ich. What garlic has been observed to do is to help rid the fish of the visual life stage of the parasite. Its not really known why this happens. Some say the garlic oil increases the fish's slime coat. Others say the garlic increases the fish's appitite thus increasing its immune system and overall health.

As of the last article I read about garlic it stated that there was yet to be any true scientific evidence as to it helping to rid your tank of ich but there are many hobbiests at all levels that have used it and experenced benifical results.

Acutally I did not know kevin was a big fan of Dr. Ron. Unless you ment that in a scarcastic way. We do suggest his articles on DSB's but I dont know how far beyond that his passion for the man extends.

The likly suspect is stress from the move from the LFS to your tank.

 

[michealprater]

Well, I think everyone agrees on Dr. Ron.