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Old 12-28-2013, 12:00 PM   #41
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Yep I agree with that. A parasite cannot form out of nowhere. It's not a bacteria or a virus or whatever it's a parasite. Just like fleas do not just grow out of no where on dogs. They come from eggs and eggs and fleas have to be present before a dog just gets fleas.

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Old 12-28-2013, 01:06 PM   #42
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Ich?

The concept that your tank is a sterile environment is what's ridiculous. Let's keep this on a respectful level. It's a discussion.

Then where does the parasite come from when nothing has been introduced? It is and has been present in the tank all along. There just hasn't been a sick fish to act as host for it to appear visually and multiply. Like the fleas above, they don't just spontaneously appear.
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:15 PM   #43
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It all depends on the persons quarantine procedures . Without knowing exactly how everything was done I cannot answer that question . And either can you
I also know for a fact that my tank is 100% free of the ich parasite because every single one of my fish has went thru hypo. I invite anyone to come chase my fish around and try to stress them out as much as they please . Nothing will happen because I took the nessesary steps to prevent it . I am not attacking anyone with my response and if you took it that way I apologize. I was merely stating it can be 100% eradicated .
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Old 12-28-2013, 01:31 PM   #44
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Ich?

I appreciate that. My "theory" is that Ich can hide in unexpected hosts for longer than 8 weeks. Otherwise, where did it come from, nothing was introduced. No QT because nothing was added but food.

I would also suggest that I could take one of your fish and stress it to the point it develops Ich, or another pathogen even in your system. Let's not try that experiment.

People with collapsed immune systems eventually get sick because it's very difficult, almost impossible over the long term, to have living things in a totally sterile environment. My point was it's better to raise strong resistant, stress free fish because then their natural immune systems makes it almost impossible for Ich to multiply. If a fish looses its slime coat, something will attack it.
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Old 12-28-2013, 02:35 PM   #45
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Oh I agree it can hide for more than 8 weeks. I have read an account online where ich survived in a fallow tank for 13 weeks . Unfortunately I cannot find that link anywere .
I will not say my tank is sterile but I have went to great lengths to ensure my tank is 100% ich free and I do believe it is and other tanks can be . Hypo qt is not the normal thing I know but it does work for me and most fish do come with ich .
I agree with everything about the stress and slime coat it just isn't something I rely on personally . In my eyes it can be controlled so that is what I believe I am doing . We as hobbyist will never be able to test tanks for ich anyways . We all just do what we feel is needed .
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Old 12-28-2013, 02:47 PM   #46
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Right, but the engineer in me wants answers. I want to take some samples to our local university and do some scans. I predict I will be surprised what I find in the water.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:17 PM   #47
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Originally Posted by Mebbid View Post
I'm have a question to both Greg and X. What happens when a new fish is added into your tanks (which is a fairly stressful situation) and gets ich. This ich multiplying and causing a large.. bloom for lack of a better word of the parasite in your tank. Presumably the fish haven't developed an immunity since it's still present in your tanks but wouldn't that in itself potentially cause a cascade effect?
The new fish would swim around with the ich until it gets comfortable, and then you would see it recover. I have done this on more than one occasion. I have lost 1 fish in a decade this way. A high strung Achilles Tang. 4 tangs were added at once. They all got a pretty heavy ich infestation, the Achilles died, and the other three recovered. Ich was in my tank then, correct? From then on, every fish I added did just fine.
I never saw it again.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:24 PM   #48
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What I do when I see a fish that comes in not doing well is get him in a stress free environment as fast as I can. Tossing it in a small tank with some bright white pvc pipes is simply not that.
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Old 12-28-2013, 06:39 PM   #49
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Yep, that's how my world works as well. Haven't had Ich in 20 years and I take zero precautions against it, other than plenty of room and good food.
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Old 12-29-2013, 10:34 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Gregcoyote View Post
I appreciate that. My "theory" is that Ich can hide in unexpected hosts for longer than 8 weeks. Otherwise, where did it come from, nothing was introduced. No QT because nothing was added but food.

I would also suggest that I could take one of your fish and stress it to the point it develops Ich, or another pathogen even in your system. Let's not try that experiment.

People with collapsed immune systems eventually get sick because it's very difficult, almost impossible over the long term, to have living things in a totally sterile environment. My point was it's better to raise strong resistant, stress free fish because then their natural immune systems makes it almost impossible for Ich to multiply. If a fish looses its slime coat, something will attack it.
I agree with this when it comes to weakened fish contacting illnesses which obviously stands to reason that a fish thats healthly will fight.

On a side note, there arnt many places bar afew that are completely sterile especially not an aquarium with plenty of water, heat and light. Which is infact a good thing. A germ free enviroment would cause other problems. The ammune system works best when its fighting and repelling. Left dormant the ammune system can almost stop working where a simple cold bug could become deadly serious.

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