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Old 03-05-2005, 04:58 PM   #11
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Thank you very much.

I would rather use another copper product, but I only had access to the Marine Enterprises test kit, and so I went with their copper sulfate product. Even now -- with the Salifert kit -- I'm not sure what range I'd be measuring for if I were using another copper product.

SG is just a hair under 1.020.
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Old 03-06-2005, 01:25 PM   #12
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Both the Marine Enterprises and Salifert product are best used with ionic forms of copper. Chelates can cause false reading depending on the copper manufacturer. If you cannot find a proper chelated test kit your options are pretty much limited to the sulfate.

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Old 03-07-2005, 03:14 PM   #13
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If you could recommend a good combination of a superior copper product and an appropriate test kit I would love to hear it.

I think I'm pretty stable at just under .25ppm CU now. How long do I need to maintain? I'm thinking 2 weeks is not enough, but I guess it depends on how copper kills the parasite. Also, do I need to be stirring the sand or anything?
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Old 03-07-2005, 07:27 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpurick
If you could recommend a good combination of a superior copper product and an appropriate test kit I would love to hear it.
http://seachem.com/products/product_...Cupramine.html
http://seachem.com/products/product_pages/MTCopper.html

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I think I'm pretty stable at just under .25ppm CU now. How long do I need to maintain? I'm thinking 2 weeks is not enough, but I guess it depends on how copper kills the parasite.
It's actually almost enough to kill the fish. 2 weeks at this level is the most I would recommend at that level. If you want to go an extra week, reduce the level closer to 0.20. Ionic coppers of this type are extremely hazardous and can affect the longevity of the fish.

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Also, do I need to be stirring the sand or anything?
If you are 100% sure the sand is silica based, it will not interact with copper. Stiring the sand won't accomplish anything possitive.

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Old 03-07-2005, 10:45 PM   #15
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The Salifert kit jumps straight from .1 to .25. How do you regulate it? And when the Marine Enterprises kit reads .30 I still have ich -- obviously it's no good. What to do?

I think it's a silicate. It's a uniform crystalline black sand. Shiny grains; almost feels sharp.
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Old 03-08-2005, 11:27 AM   #16
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The Salifert kit jumps straight from .1 to .25. How do you regulate it? And when the Marine Enterprises kit reads .30 I still have ich -- obviously it's no good. What to do?
Neither kit is sensitive enough to give an exact number but the Salifert should not "jump" that quickly.

How much of the med in total has been added to the tank and have any water changes been performed? Total volume =37 gal, no sump?

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Old 03-08-2005, 05:08 PM   #17
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Copper's very close to .25 now, and may even be a little under. I would guess that last Friday it got to at least .3

37 gal, 40lbs of sand. I'd estimate 2 gals for the Fluval 304 system. I also keep it very full because the Eclipse system is much quieter that way. I generally treat it as a 40 gal qty.

Impossible to say how much copper's in there. I'd just completed a full treatment cycle and added the carbon and done a 9-gal water change, plus I'd done a couple of changes with copper-treated water during the first treatment.

Additionally, the copper was not stable at the start of either treatment cycle, which may have been related to the bags of coral in the Fluval.

It seems very stable now. I did a 6 gallon, a 4 gallon, and then a 3 gallon change all since Friday, without adding any more copper.

Gramma and the Firefish have been very shy, though I actually saw all the fish briefly this morning. There's been a little itching. Nitrates still higher than I'd like (mid 30s). (Does that go up when the carbon's been removed?)

Tang's still a little streaky and his color's a little pale, but he's not clamping nearly as much.

Looks like someone's been nipping at the Gramma a bit. Either he tried to hide in someone else's hole, or he's been letting the Tang get too close because he's off his game. Usually he just steers clear of the Tang and there's no conflict, but the Gramma may not be feeling too good right now.

I think I saw a single spot on the Tang's right fin yesterday, and it's gone now. This is the first time I've felt the bug's really in decline since I started adding copper two weeks ago.

How long must I treat to eradicate it?
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Old 03-08-2005, 05:42 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by cpurick
Copper's very close to .25 now, and may even be a little under. I would guess that last Friday it got to at least .3

37 gal, 40lbs of sand. I'd estimate 2 gals for the Fluval 304 system. I also keep it very full because the Eclipse system is much quieter that way. I generally treat it as a 40 gal qty.

Impossible to say how much copper's in there. I'd just completed a full treatment cycle and added the carbon and done a 9-gal water change, plus I'd done a couple of changes with copper-treated water during the first treatment.

Additionally, the copper was not stable at the start of either treatment cycle, which may have been related to the bags of coral in the Fluval.

It seems very stable now. I did a 6 gallon, a 4 gallon, and then a 3 gallon change all since Friday, without adding any more copper.
I was hoping to get a better idea of the level through the dosage used but that's out. Keep testing daily to be sure the level does not drop. If the best match you can get is 0.25, keep it there so you know it will be effective. Higher than I would suggest but better than too low.

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(Does that go up when the carbon's been removed?)
If it was there long enough to be a bacterial source for nitrification yes. If short lived no, the carbon does not do much in terms of removing nitrogen compounds.

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Tang's still a little streaky and his color's a little pale, but he's not clamping nearly as much.
Keep up with the water changes, that's most likely what's causing the improvement. Just be very careful the copper level is maintained. Best to treat the new change water to the proper level first.

Quote:
Looks like someone's been nipping at the Gramma a bit. Either he tried to hide in someone else's hole, or he's been letting the Tang get too close because he's off his game. Usually he just steers clear of the Tang and there's no conflict, but the Gramma may not be feeling too good right now.
Could be nipping or the beginnings of secondary infection. Keep tabs on it. If that gets worse or the tangs red streaks do not improve, an antibiotic may be needed.

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How long must I treat to eradicate it?
At 0.25 I would not suggest any more than two weeks from yesterday. As I've said ionic coppers are quite damaging to the long term health of the fish so you need to be conscious of the time they spend in it. Once completed, run carbon and do a few water changes until the copper is undetectable. If you can find one I would highly recommend a polyfilter.

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Old 03-08-2005, 09:59 PM   #19
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Can the parasite be eliminated in 2 weeks though?

I'll change out a couple more gallons tomorrow. I'll do the math to see how much copper-free water I can swap in without going below .20
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Old 03-08-2005, 10:13 PM   #20
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Can the parasite be eliminated in 2 weeks though
If the dosage of 0.25 is maintained, most definately. Even if lowered to 0.20, it should be effective as long as it's monitored and maintained at least daily.

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