Ich devolpment in ~4 year old established tank???

[BlueDolphin]

Hello all. I have had my tank up and running (with the exception of a move over a year ago) for about 4-5 years now. I have a Regal Tang, Percula Clown, and Black and Yellow Blenny. The tang was my first fish, followed by the clown, and the blenny came about a year ago. All of my fish were QT'd, and have never had a problem until a few days ago. I noticed my Tang had a white spot on her side (like she had rubbed up against something). Then she began swimming erratically, hiding a lot, and not eating. Today, I noticed her dorsal fin is looking brown and frayed. I suspected ich to begin with, but usually only hear about it developing from new fish being introduced without QT'ing them. Is is possible to develop spontaneously like this? The clown and the blenny are absolutely fine so far...

 

[seaham358]

Post a pic... the frayed fin does not sound like ich. tank and fish size? ich looks like salt on a fish. Could be bacterial or look up lateral line erosion

 

[BlueDolphin]

unfortunately i can't get a picture of her. she is hiding in her live rock hole. that was my other concern. i am setting up the QT/Hospital tank as we speak... but i'm afraid i won't be able to catch her to put her in it. i'm also afraid it will just cause more undue stress on her.

my tank is 60 gallons (small for a tang, i now know - but 4 years ago i was unaware). my tang is about 1.5 inches now.

 

[melosu58]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

Here is a couple post on the parasite. Bad water parameters will stress the fish out and cause the parasite to overtake the fish. What are your water test results? Read the two post to see if you have the parasite.

 

[BlueDolphin]

i had read the posts, and it certainly sounds like she could possibly have ich. i have been having an on-going issue with slightly high nitrates (15-20), and thought perhaps that could have led to this onset? i have been trying to get the nitrates under control with water changes, but am baffled at what could cause them to remain high in the first place. i removed the sponges from the powerheads thinking they could've been the culprit. i just did a 40% water change on Sunday, and tested my water parameters. everything still looks good, aside the from the nitrates still being in the 15-20 range.

i am very concerned with my tang's health. how long can a fish live with this disease? what if i am unable to catch her to put her in the hospital tank?

 

[Devilishturtles]

Hi Kristen, sorry to hear about your fish.

I sorta agree with seaham, it doesn't sound like ich. Have you read anything on Headd and Lateral Line Erosion (HLLE)? It's, unfortanetly, common in Tangs.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/sp/index.php

Your nitrates at the 15-20 range aren't high enough to cause long term issues, IMHO.

 

[BlueDolphin]

i have read about HLLE, but her symptoms don't seem to match. the way she's acting (erratic swimming, hiding, loss of appetite, abnormal breathing...) all seem to point towards ich. however, never seeing it in person before i am not 100% sure. all i can say is that the white spots i have seen on her do not look like grains of salt, but more like patches. i wish i could take a picture, but she won't come out of her rock...

 

[Halcyon_Diver]

Blue Dolphin....
My tang developed the same type of patches...kinda like a bleach spot....didnt know what it was until i put my hand in my sump and got a slight shock....i had almost 40 volts in the water...i replaced my heaters and installed a ground probe....problem solved....the patches disappeared in 2 days...Hope this helps...and good luck

 

[tecwzrd]

my tank is 60 gallons (small for a tang, i now know - but 4 years ago i was unaware). my tang is about 1.5 inches now.

What do you feed your tang? I've never seen a 4 year old Blue Tang less then 5+"

 

[macman7010]

I agree with tec a 4 year old Regal Tang should not be 1.5 inches as that is typically the size they are offered for sale at many outlets. In addition to that I have found that when offered for sale at that size Regal Tangs prove to be very tough to keep since they are prone to external parasites in the first place. When ich infects a large fish the surface area of the animal gives it a better fighting chance then when ich infects a tiny fish.

There is always a chance that an ich outbreak can occur, (or any parasite outbreak) even in an established tank. Immunity suppression, stress, even a day when temperatures accidentally rise or fall can all be culprits in allowing the onset of a parasitic infection. My recommendation would be, as you have done, setting up qt and treating the fish with either hyposalinity or copper if you determine once you get a good look at it that ich is in fact what you are dealing with.

Have you introduced any new inverts to the tank perhaps. Shrimp, snails, or anything really even live rock can have ich foiled over it. Also the spike in nitrates you are speaking about may have stressed the fish to the point of infection.

 

[roka64]

Is it just one spot or is there a pattern?

 

[produceb]

I think the 1.5 inch tang may be a midget dyeing of old age.

 

[BlueDolphin]

I feed my tang nori seaweed, and frozen cubes (Special Formula, VHP, Prime Reef, Formula One, Formula Two, and Spirulina).

She is probably closer to 2 inches, and I would say the white patches were not in any sort of pattern - there was one on her side and one on her head near her eyes and mouth. She hasn't come out of her rock since yesterday, so I don't know if her symptoms have changed, but I can still see her frayed dorsal fin.

I don't think I will be able to get her out of the main tank! What should I do? I did a partial water change on the tank today, but don't know what else to do as I definitely don't want to medicate the main tank.

Any ideas????

 

[macman7010]

you could always pick the whole rock out of the tank.

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

you could always pick the whole rock out of the tank.

Good point. Cracked me up when I saw my LFS capture the Royal Gramma I bought that way. The gramma did the "become one with the rock" thing they do so well, and the guy just picked the rock up out of the water over the collection container and it obviously let go of the rock, and dropped into the collection container! Pretty easy!

 

[BlueDolphin]

I actually had to do that when I moved the tank, but the rock that she calls home is fairly large and really don't think it would fit in the QT, or bucket....

 

[hsherman1986]

not a saltie here, but could you kinda aim her towards the QT tank or bucket and let her flop her way in out of the rock?

 

[roka64]

There are a few ways you can try to catch her:
1. Keep your net in the tank so she gets used to it and try to snag her.
2. Build a coke bottle trap with some food in it.
3. Wait about 2 hours after lights out and when she is sleeping, turn the lights on and grab her while she is still groggy (since she is sick, I would try the other two first to avoid as much stress as possible).

 

[BlueDolphin]

I guess I should've known if I was able to get her out of the main tank, then her illness was advanced. I ran off to buy some Maracyn 2 because after finally getting a good look at her, I thought it might be a bacterial infection. However, when I got home with the meds she was already gone.

I took some more pictures. I would greatly appreciate any input on what the issue looked to have been.

Also, the other fish in my main tank seem to be perfectly fine. Are bacterial infections (if that's what was the cause of my tang's illness) transferable between fish?

My tang was my very first fish for my tank, so she had a special place in my heart. I just can't believe that she had survived two hurricanes (one with our power being out for three days and my tank running on battery powered air bubblers, and manual oxygenation - the second one with her whole rock being transfered into a make-shift aquarium and driven 8 hours away) and an entire tank move from pensacola.... I will miss her so.

Thanks so much for everyone's help.

Kristen

 

[macman7010]

Kristen,

My best shot in the dark guess would be a bacterial infection though I question if that is the case with this fish. Bacterial infections though usually show up in the form of white patches of increased slime coat or even fungus. In addition to that bacterial infections are usually the product of highly diminished water quality; if your fish has been healthy for four years I find it hard to believe that your water quality was bad or bad enough to cause the fish's demise.

This could have also been a parasitic infection though. The white patches could represent areas where the fish was glazing against rocks and other decor in an attempt to scratch off parasites. I don't see any external parasites on the fish though that does not mean that they are not there. That goes without mentioning the possibility of internal infection as well.

Sadly without getting tissue samples under a microscope with someone trained to identify various parasites/bacterias the cause of your fish's demise will likely be unknown. I will say in one photo the fish's color near the bottom looks pale and I can see what somewhat looks like marine velvet cysts. Marine velvet is much smaller in diameter then ich and can sometimes be hard to diagnose. Sadly this parasite is a true fish killer and can wipe fish out with much higher efficiency then marine ich; in short it's no fun!

Posting your current water parameters and an idea about what this fish was fed would be helpful in determining what the problem might have been. As for you question about bacterial infections: They can transfer fish to fish though like I said earlier they are normally the cause of diminished water quality or sudden temp spikes. Does you tank have a UV sterilizer on it.


*EDIT*

Kristen,

I enlarged the one picture of your fish and carefully examined it. I can see what looks like a mixture of marine ich and perhaps other external parasites all along the fish. I would assume the patches you see are from stress compiled with other factors caused by the intense parasitic infection. In my opinion it was most certainly an external parasite that killed your fish and I would consider some options as your other tank mates may be infected.