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Old 09-29-2005, 04:04 PM   #1
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Ich or Flukes (or other?)

1. How long have you had the fish? Do you know if it was wild caught, or tank raised?
Blue Damsel - 1 Year
Kole Tang - 1 Year
Porcupine Puffer - 9 months
Racoon Butterfly - 6 months (lost recently, see below)
Huma Huma Trigger - 3 months

2. How long has the fish been in the tank? What are the tank mates? Any aggression?
No aggression noticed except maybe raccoon and now Tang rubbing tail into Trigger when under same rock together.

3. Is the fish eating? If so what does it eat?
All fish are eating and seem hungry. They eat frozen Krill and frozen Life Line

4. What are the water parameters? pH, ammonia, nitrite, nitrate, SPG? (actual numbers please: posting high, average or normal is not helpful) What saltwater test kit are you using? Will post later

5. Is the fish showing any physical signs of disease, grain of salt size spots, discoloration, ragged fins, misting or spots on the fins, cuts, cloudy eyes, etc? Blue Damsel - None
Kole Tang - discoloration, ragged fins, cuts, rubbing on rocks
Porcupine Puffer - None
Racoon Butterfly - recently lost but showed discoloration, ragged fins, cuts, rubbing on rocks before it died, same as Kole is starting to show
Huma Huma Trigger - None

6. Is the fish "flashing" (scratching or rubbing on rocks, decorations or substrate)?
Blue Damsel - No
Kole Tang - YES
Porcupine Puffer - No
Racoon Butterfly - YES, was before lost
Huma Huma Trigger - No

7. How is the fish acting? Is it swimming around, or just hovering in one spot or corner of the tank?
Blue Damsel - Swimming, seems OK
Kole Tang - Does hover under rock but then comes out and swims but not as much as it did, always come out for food
Porcupine Puffer - Swimming, seems OK
Racoon Butterfly - before lost, hovered under rock but then comes out and swims but not as much as it did, sometimes swam violently, always come out for food until day before it died
Huma Huma Trigger - Swimming, seems OK

8. Did you use quarantine? If so for how long and did you have a need to treat for any ailments? Is it in qt now? Are you currently treating with any medication(s)?
I have a QT set up but havent used it yet
No meds yet, see more information below

9. Describe in detail how the fish was acclimated.
Acclimated by floating and then adding small amounts of tank water to bag every 5-10 minutes for about 30 minutes

10. What size system? What type of filtration do you use? Do you have any live rock or sand?
- 55 Gallon
- Crushed Coral
- 20+ lbs Live Rock
- aMiracle Wet/Dry
- Penguin BioWheel
- BakPak BioFilter/Protien Skimmer
- Power Head


11. Do you use any additives? Have you used any sort of meds in the main tank?
I used cupamine about 6 months ago to treat ich and it worked fine

Other
My temp in my tank is usually around 82-84 (I am not happy about it) even though my house is at 76. The way my tank is placed in my house I get direct sunlight hitting the tank for about 30-45 minutes in the afternoon that I belive is causing a 2 degree temp spike daily. I have a 20ft ceiling in the room and the top windows arent covered (I would cover them if my wife would let me). Next Summer I plan on addressing my temp issue but for now it is what it is, I live in Chicago so the Winter wont be a problem)
__________________________________________________ _______

My concern is with my Kole Tang. I recently lost a Racoon Butterfly to the same symptoms. The Raccoon started to get discolored, then I started to notice damaged scales, open wounds, rock rubbing (sometimes violently), hiding under a rock. No Spots, no cloudy eyes, no growths, and ate till the dies before he died.

Now my Kole Tang is starting with discoloration (very light brown now), open wounds, fins are becoming frayed, starting to hide a bit but no spots, no eye problems, no growths, not really rubbing on rocks (maybe a little bit), and always ready to eat.

Yesterday I went to a LFS and they told me to treat for ich so I went home, did a water change (20%), moved my Live rock to my spare 20 G tank, removed carbon, turned off Skimmer only to notice my Cupamine was not where I thought it was. I noticed my water did smell a bit fishy during my WC.

Today, I went to another LFS to get some Cupamine. The guy there told me to treat for Flukes so I am a bit confused now and was hoping someone here would assist me with some advice.

I will try to post some pics when I get home tonight

I will be monitoring this post and would like to thank anyone in advance for their help.
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Old 09-29-2005, 08:59 PM   #2
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Well....I have this Ammonia gauge that stays inside my tank and was told by this awesome LFS by my house that it "Works Great!". I did a manual test and low and behold I have .5 ppm of Ammonia 8O present so I guess my answer is "Poor Water Quality". I really trusted that gauge , my fault .

My Ammonia is .5 ppm
My PH is 8.4
My Nitrite is 20 ppm
My Nitrate was inconclusive since my test expired and the color just isnt coming out right.


I am going to change about 20 more gallons. Anyone have anymore suggestions?
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Old 09-29-2005, 09:16 PM   #3
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Here are the pics I promised....
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 100_3407_resize.jpg (109.5 KB, 129 views)
File Type: jpg 100_3406_resize.jpg (78.1 KB, 98 views)
File Type: jpg 100_3408_resize.jpg (107.6 KB, 79 views)
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Fish - Tomato Clown, Black Chromis Planned - Green Mandarin, Corals, few more..
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Old 09-29-2005, 09:22 PM   #4
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More....
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File Type: jpg 100_3416_resize.jpg (82.2 KB, 67 views)
File Type: jpg 100_3412_resize.jpg (84.3 KB, 59 views)
File Type: jpg 100_3409_resize.jpg (109.0 KB, 52 views)
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Fish - Tomato Clown, Black Chromis Planned - Green Mandarin, Corals, few more..
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Old 09-29-2005, 10:31 PM   #5
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I think you are dealing with a vibrio infection possibley marine TB. Please be sure you double check those water parameters. 20 ppm nitrite?

Be sure you continue the water changes daily (well aged/aerated before use) until the ammonia and nitrite are undetectable. These are very hard of your fish's immune system and the high DOC leaves them wide open for a miriad of infections and such.

I seriously doubt you are dealing with flukes or any other parasite so do not use the copper or fluke treatment. I would QT the Kole and treat with Nitrofurazone @ 30mg/gal for 5 days. It should help knock out the Vibrio quite quickly. Be sure all the fish are fed more nutritious foods as well. Variety being the key as well as fortifying with a good marine vitamin and adding veggie foods. The tang must be fed vegetable matter daily.

BTW, thatnk very much for the detailed response

Cheers
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Old 09-29-2005, 10:43 PM   #6
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And we need to discuss that bioload as well...

Cheers
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Old 09-30-2005, 02:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
Please be sure you double check those water parameters. 20 ppm nitrite?
Yeah...I messed those up
20 ppm was Nitrate
Nitrite I couldnt get a reading, I will pick up a new test

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
Do not use the copper or fluke treatment.
I didnt once I realized I the poor water quality

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
I would QT the Kole and treat with Nitrofurazone @ 30mg/gal for 5 days.
I will tomorrow...work, kids, gotta pick up meds, etc...ya know

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
The tang must be fed vegetable matter daily.
I have been feeding the Kole Tang Herbivore Tang Life Line for a year. I bought something else (Formula Two w/ gel binder) from another LFS and the fish didnt seem to like it as much and I didnt like the gel. I bought some more Life Line now as well as some frozen Mysis. I can now mix and match these.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
BTW, thatnk very much for the detailed response
No prob....cant expect a useful answer without giving as much info as possible...its in my best interest as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
And we need to discuss that bioload as well
Not sure what you mean exactly but whatever I am doing wrong I am willing to correct.

After tonights water change...
.25 Ammonia
20 ppm was Nitrate (seems a little less by the color of the test)

All fish ate well and I was careful to only feed what they wanted to consume. Also Thursday was a colder day in Chicago so my tank temp is now a nice 78 and holding. Goin to be low 70's for a week+ here.


Thanks Steve....you have been more help than anyone at any of the LFS's I have been to.
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Fish - Tomato Clown, Black Chromis Planned - Green Mandarin, Corals, few more..
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Old 09-30-2005, 09:15 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Branew
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
And we need to discuss that bioload as well
Not sure what you mean exactly but whatever I am doing wrong I am willing to correct.
I believe what Steve means is, you have to many large fish (have to go by adult size) for that size tank. The trigger, puffer and tang are all gonna out grow it and will need to be upgraded to a larger tank or returned. Good luck.
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Old 09-30-2005, 12:08 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fluff
Quote:
Originally Posted by Branew
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve-s
And we need to discuss that bioload as well
Not sure what you mean exactly but whatever I am doing wrong I am willing to correct.
I believe what Steve means is, you have to many large fish (have to go by adult size) for that size tank. The trigger, puffer and tang are all gonna out grow it and will need to be upgraded to a larger tank or returned. Good luck.
Ohh...OK. I kinda knew that and I was really done buying fish.

My 55 G is about 12-13 years old and the top crossbar is starting to crack so I am looking into getting a 90 Gallon as a Christmas present to myself
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Old 09-30-2005, 12:36 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Branew
My 55 G is about 12-13 years old and the top crossbar is starting to crack so I am looking into getting a 90 Gallon as a Christmas present to myself

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