Ick or Lymphocyctis???

[Halcyon_Diver]

Hey,

last night i noticed some white blotches on my hippo tang...im not sure what it is...he sometimes rubs against the coral...otherwise eating and swimming well...here are some pics...thanks for your help

 

[macman7010]

Looks to me like ich. Ich is very, very common in Hippo Tangs and is sometimes very hard to treat and get rid of especially once it is in the main system's water. How long have you had this Hippo Tang? Do you have a separate qt or hospital tank? The only way's to treat ich successfully, that have worked IME are hyposalinity (preferable but slower) and copper.

To do a hypo treatment you need to place the Hippo tang in an invertebrate free aquarium and slowly, over the course of about one week, drop the salinity down to a density of 1.009. This is best done using a refractometer to measure the water.

For a copper treatment again the tank needs to be invertebrate free and copper can be added. My recommendation for a hospital tank is 10-20 gallons with no substrate, a sponge filter and heater.

Since I can see coral plugs and snails in the aquarium the hippo is in you will most certainly need a seperate qt/hospital tank.

 

[Halcyon_Diver]

Hey Macman,
thats what i was afraid of....i do have a sailin tang...a pj cardinal, a clown and a blue chromis in the tank as well...i guess ill set up a QT today and begin theprocess...how do you tell the difference between ick and lympho? and thanks for your quick reply

 

[roka64]

Lympho will not drop off, ich will. Lympho is a virus, so you would take a sample and check it under a microscope. Ich is a parasite.

+++EDIT+++
I would start soaking their frozen in garlic guard, this may help to boost their immune systems (keep in mind, it will not cure ich) and fight off any other parasites or infections.

 

[Halcyon_Diver]

the interesting thing is i have a 75 gallon fresh water tank...had ick years ago and these spots dont look the same...these are smooth flat spots..not bumpy..i make their food and add garlic to the mix..should i wait a little while longer before i start any treatment..the other fish have no spots at all

 

[roka64]

I wouldn't chance it. I would start QT immediately.

 

[Halcyon_Diver]

ok ..thaks Roka...going to set up the qt today

 

[roka64]

Cool, keep us updated. Do you have a Refractometer http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=9957&N=2004+113761?

 

[Halcyon_Diver]

yes Roka i do have a refractometer...one of the smart things ive done!...can i use a hot filter like an emperor/penquin in the qt..and add some LR from my fuge or would i need to soak the bio filters in the fuge?

 

[roka64]

I would soak the biofilters. If you put LR in the filter, the low salinity might kill off some of the critters already living there.

 

[melosu58]

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

Excellent article by one of our members.

 

[seaham358]

not a expert on ich but in those pics its hard to say. good luck with the battle..
I just started using garlic gurad with seachem focus meds to help my new Powder Brown stay healthy.

 

[macman7010]

Actually ich can manifest itself strangely on hippo tangs as well as powder blue's. Since there are so many ich strains; sometimes ich does not look once like it had before. Lymphocysts are a virus that can be categorized and diagnosed by the large white cysts that grow, more often then not on the edge of fins. This virus looks much different then ich and would not attack the sides of a fishes body.

If your hippo does not have ich my guess is that he has some form of external parasite. The bad part is that these tangs are very succeptable to ich so if the ich is not removed from the existing system then the tang will just become re-infected once he is placed back in. My recommendation is either running the tank fallow or using one of the supposed reefsafe ich remedies now on the market. Going the fallow route for 1-3 months would nail the ich for sure, the reefsafe medicine I am not so sure about.

 

[roka64]

I agree mac, the Lymphocysts will look more like eggs.

 

[Halcyon_Diver]

i had the LFS guy stop by my house last night...lives close by....he said it was a bacterial infection and definatly not ick...he reccomended a reef safe med called Rally? i have been buying stuff from this guy for years for my freshwater tank and he has been in the business for years...
i hope hes right...amazingly the other fish show no signs as of yet. anyone ever hear of Rally?

 

[macman7010]

I have heard of Rally, never used it but have read about it. Rally is made by the same group that makes Kick Ich which is advertised as a reef safe ich and parasite treatment. I have used Kick Ich with a 0% success rate. Bacterial infections are 9 times out of 10 the result of diminished water quality or stress. Improper nutrition can also be a culprit.

First I would test your water and look for high nitrates, possible some nitrite but also a good phosphate test is in order. If the fish does in fact have a bacterial infection then finding the stressor will prove far more important long term then clearing up the infection. Is anyone picking on the fish? Eating Well? What are you feeding? What is your ph?

Rally like Kick Ich is advertised as a reef safe medication although anything that treats a bacterial infection is an antibiotic. Sadly these medications dont discriminate between good and bad bacteria and can really take a toll on your bio-filter. As recommended before, if the fish has a bacterial infection I would go with a qt tank. In that case you could use Maracyn 2 which is a bacterial treatment that I feel is superior to Rally.

 

[Halcyon_Diver]

mACMAN,
parameters are good
twmp-80
amm-0
trite-<.1
trate-<10 just a slight tint
ph-8.3
phos-0
alk-normal range
dkh-7
sg-35ppt
testing with salifert(except for alk)
i bought this set up as an established tank..took 14 hrs to get it set up and then a day and a half to get the fish into it,set it up ont the 20th of may so i think that stress has something to do with it...he isnt being picked on at all and ive been feeding mysis,cyclopeeze and homemade fresh mush! ive been very carefull not to over feed, they all chow it down with in 3-4 mins and are eating well. there was a green algae problem but that is dissapating very well between pwc and reduced lighting 9 hrs instaed of 12 that is diminishing.
unfortunatly i added one dose of the rally already,into the dt, i have a qt set up.now .if i move the fish into it and run carbon do you think ill be able to save the benificial bacterias?

 

[macman7010]

As for your bacteria you may be able to save some. The free floating bacteria in the water would be the first to go as the antibiotic would take longer to kill the bacteria that has filmed onto rocks, glass, etc. Running carbon would remove the medication as would a large pwc.

One thing that concerns me is your nitrite reading, you post a .1 reading. If there is any nitrite in your water then something is out of balance. Nitrite is second in its deadliest only to ammonia and signals imbalance in the aquarium ecosystem. Perhaps the stress of the move not only has bothered this Hippo Tang but disrupted your bacteria bed as well. My recommendation, if that nitrite is showing a raised value would be trying some Cycle or Stability to try to jump start the bio-filtration. While I dont advocate the use of these products to cycle a new aquarium they can prove efficient in helping out an ailing bacteria bed.

I would get that qt humming ASAP and get the fish into there using Maracyn 2. A lowered density of about 1.019-1.020 might work to aid the fish in osmoregulation and thus releve stress.

 

[roka64]

A lowered density of about 1.019-1.020 might work to aid

Remember to drip acclimate him to your QT slowly if you decide to start up the QT with that low of a salinity. I'm guessing you probably have to do some PWCs using those meds so you could slowly reduce your salinity through the PWCs.

 

[Halcyon_Diver]

macman...when i tested for nitrite there is justa trace of color..i know it should be clear though..i didnt use the sand from the tank..i added 90 lbs of aragonite sand...there is about 120 lbs of LR.i will get some of the stabil or cycle stuff as well as the maracyn 2..could i use some of the dt water for the qt or should i start with frsh salt water with a lower salinity and drip acclimate as Roka has suggested?
i want to thank you guys for all the time you have spent working with me..i honestly dont know what i would have done with out it. how long should the fish be in the qt for?