I'm Afraid...

[steve-s]

I was also hoping to see some feedback from these questions.....

Are there any other symptoms? Listlessness, heavy gilling? Are they eating?

Also be sure you are checking the alkalinity and pH at least 2x a day. That could be part of the issue as well.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Phyl]

I couldn't get a picture of this fish that looked like anything was wrong with it. The pictures all show a perfectly beautiful fish.

He's was swimming beautifully this evening. Very graceful and well paced. He had been "sprinting" a bit over the last week, but wasn't doing any of that tonight. Just grace and beauty. Looks calm, no heavy breathing. Appetite has been good. Ate some nori off the clip tonight. Last night he had formula 2 soaked in selcon and garlic.

Here are some pictures. They're the worst I could get!

 

[Phyl]

FWIW, the gramma looks like he's steering clear of this. Not a symptom on the fish at all. Swims about in open water, eats well, active, no spots, etc.

As for the picture (the one of the Ich, I presume?) have at it!

 

[quarryshark]

Ya he looks pretty good. I would suggest proceeding with the hypo
Steve brings up a great point. Every time I have used hypo, the PH takes a dive especially during the transition peroid. I would monitor and buffer the change water when needed.
Your doing a great job!!

 

[quarryshark]

FWIW, the gramma looks like he's steering clear of this.

Some fish are more resistant to showing symptom. You are doing the right thing, based on the first pic, definately an outbreak.

 

[Phyl]

Oh the gramma's definitely in for the long haul in spite of his resiliancy. Are we back to thinking ich? You had me a bit worried with the velvet thing! You can see some vague spots on the fin and face in the second close up picture. Funny how I can't get a picture of what I'm looking at. I guess the angle has to be just right. If I could just pin him down for a bit

I've been testing the pH once a day. I'll start doing it twice a day (probably more often than that when the monitor comes in tomorrow)! It seems to be holding fast and I've been adding a little bit of buffer to my RO/DI.

 

[quarryshark]

Ya, I think it is just ich. Let us know if you see any other symptoms though.

 

[Phyl]

Will do. Thanks!

(why couldn't it be one of the 5-40$ fishies that came down with ich?!)

 

[Phyl]

Refractometer's here. Man how do people live without these?! Just Crazy!! I can't believe how easy it is to use (not that a hydrometer is hard, but....) and what a difference! Oh to be accurate. Found out my main was high too

Have my SG down to 1.013 now in QT. Tomorrow morning I should get it the rest of the way down. He's looking pretty cruddy today. Lots of ichy spots on him. How long before they start to go away and don't come back once the SG is down all the way? Patience, patience, patience. Very difficult.

 

[quarryshark]

Lots of ichy spots on him. How long before they start to go away and don't come back once the SG is down all the way? Patience, patience, patience. Very difficult.

Can take a week or so ., Is he still eating ok? Hows the PH?

 

[Phyl]

pH looks like it is around 8.4 (?). Now if only my pH monitor would get here. I guess it will be here tomorrow. Is 8.4 ok? That seems high to me. I always run closer to 8.2. If I need to bring it down what would I do?

He seemed to be eating fine. I fed some formula 1 tonight soaked in garlic and selcon. He and the gramma ate fine. There's been nori in the tank and now that's all over the place (what did he do to it?!). I need to vacuum out the QT again. Messy messy fishy.

 

[midiman]

Do you have one of those guppy breeder compartments with the slotted bottoms? You could hang that in your main tank so that the critters would get circulation- a bit ugly, perhaps, but.....

 

[quarryshark]

pH looks like it is around 8.4 (?).

Thats is fine.

I need to vacuum out the QT again. Messy messy fishy.

In qt I feed, give them 5 minutes and siphon whats left out.
Nori is a little different. You can leave it in for a few hours, will not foul the water as fast. I would still siphon the leftovers our before bedtime.

 

[lando]

Phyl...nothing new to add except that this is exactly why we QT. Nice Job! Kudos coming your way

 

[Phyl]

Salinity is down to 1.09. pH monitor just got in so that's going to get easier (it is soaking in solution right now in prepartion for calibration). I guess that makes today day 1.

The gramma is now showing signs of ich. Gramma looks awful today. The tang looks better today than he looked yesterday, but still quite spotty looking.

The tang ate some nori greedily. I threw a few bits of cyclopeze today that they nipped at a bit.

I'm feeling really disheartened by the amount of spot they both have right now. I just keep telling myself that this is the beginning of them getting better, but it is really hard to believe right now. *sigh*.

Thanks for the props, Lando. I'm glad they're in QT and I'm glad that they never made it to my main or I'd have complete hades on my hands, but this sure does hurt. I'm so upset and these aren't even fish I've had for a long time. I already feel like I have a lot emotionally at stake right now! I can't imagine all of my fish going through this! Kudos for anyone who's taken a tankful of fish through this process and survived.

Would it help to put some melafix in there or is there no need for anything like that (or stresscoat)? Is there anything other than the selcon that I can do for them to make this easier on them? (somebody tell me this is harder on me than the fish)

 

[quarryshark]

Would it help to put some melafix in there or is there no need for anything like that (or stresscoat)? Is there anything other than the selcon that I can do for them to make this easier on them? (somebody tell me this is harder on me than the fish)

I wouldn't, just keep water quality high and watch that darn PH.
Make sure they keep eating.

 

[Phyl]

pH seems volitile (I know, I should expect that), but I'd like to know what, if anything, I can do to stabilize it. Would plants help?

Last night (a couple of hours after lights out) was 7.9 so I put in a tiny bit of the seachem buffer (1/16 tsp over 15g). During the day it was 8.2 and this morning at 7am it was already back up to 8.2 (surely more because of the morning light of the eastfacing window it sits in front of than the miniscule amount of buffer I added to the tank). The night before it was 8.4. Is this sort of swing ok for the fish or is it stressing them?

The gramma hasn't come out of her hole while I'm around (but I wasn't around a lot yesterday) but what I can see of her looks good. The tang doesn't have any real pronounced spots on him but I can still see some lighter spots when I look on an angle. Still eating just fine. The tang did quite a number on the selcon soaked nori that I hung yesterday and I got to vacuum up lots of tang poop this morning.

Water nasties are all spot on 0-0-0. And the salinity is holding steady at 1.09.

 

[quarryshark]

It should stabilize, especially if you buffer your change water before adding.
A swing if 7.9 at night to 8.2 during the day is nothing out of the ordinary. PH tends to run lower at night.
Your doing great.

 

[Phyl]

Man the tang looks awful tonight. This has to be about as bad as he's looked...

Ich Tang in Motion
(2mb MOV file viewable with free downloadable QuickTime )

 

[steve-s]

Ouch.... Considering the salinity just reached treatment level 2 days ago, it's too soon for it to have interupted the reproductive cycle just yet. I'm tempted to suggest a pH adjusted FW dip to alleviate some of the trophonts. It won't rid the tang of all the pests but may give it some relief.

Have you been checking the salinity daily as well as pH? Was the refractometer checked and/or calibrated for accuracey using RO/DI?

Cheers
Steve