I'm Afraid...

[Phyl]

Refractometer was checked for accuracy using RO/DI and I'm checking it 3 or 4 times a day, lol. I'm checking pH just about as often. This morning those spots looked faded but by this evening they were bright white like you see in that video. He's eating like a pig though! He ate an entire 3"x 1.5" strip of Nori while I was at work.

What part of the cycle does it affect? While they're on the fish or while they're swimming? What do you think about the RO/DI dip?

 

[steve-s]

This morning those spots looked faded but by this evening they were bright white like you see in that video.

Could simpley be the trophont maturing as the time to detach aproaches.

What part of the cycle does it affect? While they're on the fish or while they're swimming?

Neither. It interupts the reproductive tomont.

What do you think about the RO/DI dip?

As long as you heat it to the same as the QT temp and adjust the pH as well. You need to be very careful these are matched properly so as not to further stress the fish. Once placed in the dip, be very watchful for overt signs of stress or discomfort. The tang will not like it at first but should settle down. If it doesn't, discontinue the dip and return to the QT. About 3 minutes should be plenty.

http://www.petsforum.com/personal/trevor-jones/freshwaterdips.html

 

[quarryshark]

That's why your seeing the spots. Hypo can only get them when they reach the free swimming stage, its the same with copper. That is the only stage when they are vunerable.
Thats the reason for the 4 week period at the treatment level, to make sure you get them all.

 

[midiman]

Hmmm... Wait a minute. I thought copper got the swimmers and hypo got the cysts. Did I misunderstand something?

 

[steve-s]

I thought copper got the swimmers and hypo got the cysts. Did I misunderstand something?

Nope, that's basically correct.

Cheers
Steve

 

[quarryshark]

What do you think about the RO/DI dip?

Honestly, I think it is an unnecessary stressful step in this case. If the SG is at treatment level and the fish is otherwise acting and eating normally, I would skip it.

 

[steve-s]

Usually I would agree but from watching the .MOV, the tang is gilling quite rapidly and showing obvious signs of discomfort. The dip would help remove some of the trophonts easing the discomfort and help with the gills. My main concern here is gill damage as well as suffocation. As hypo progresses it wil prevent re-infestation but it will do nothing to ease the trophonts.

Cheers
Steve

 

[quarryshark]

Wow, I missed the .Mov link ( I really gotta slow down scanning these posts)
OK, I digress....he does look pretty bad.

 

[Phyl]

The dip would help remove some of the trophonts easing the discomfort and help with the gills.

Does it really? After reading the links you sent me to where it said that it wouldn't take any of the parasites off of the fish since they're burrowed anyway I didn't see where it would help to dip him. I put it off last night after reading that but if you think it is a good idea and isn't going to make matters worse then I'll go ahead and dip tonight.

Exactly which stage is the trophont?

 

[steve-s]

After reading the links you sent me to where it said that it wouldn't take any of the parasites off of the fish since they're burrowed anyway I didn't see where it would help to dip him. I put it off last night after reading that but if you think it is a good idea and isn't going to make matters worse then I'll go ahead and dip tonight.

The FW dip has no real effect as a cure but can ease the infestation of surface trophonts, not the ones buried deep into the epithelium. The goal with the dip is not to eliminate the trophonts, only ease the discomfort of the fish and aid in breathing. With light-normal infestations it would be pointless but given the state of the tang now, I am concerned it is having difficulty breathing.

It is a risk no matter which route you choose. If the fish is extremely week from the onslought, the dip could do more harm than good. On the otherhand if the parasites does not abate soon to the reproductive stage, the tang could succumb and die of suffocation. It's one of those darned if you do and darned if you don't situations.

Exactly which stage is the trophont?

The noduals on the fish.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Phyl]

darned if you do and darned if you don't

Oh now that's just my luck!! I'll get water up to temp and pH when I get home and if he's not looking any better I'll plop him into the dip. If he happens, by some miracle, to look tremendously better I'll take a video of him first to see what you think.

This poor fish. If he survives I think we'll have to come up with a new clever name for him and his survival skills.

 

[Phyl]

>> New Movie <<

Just wanted to check with you before I dipped him. What do you think? To dip or not to dip... what would you do?

Thanks!

 

[quarryshark]

I assume that you already did. How did it go?

 

[Phyl]

Nope. I didn't. I was hoping to get a Yea or Nah from you guys and to me he was looking a little better than the night before. Today he doesn't have any pronounced bright white spots (I don't know if that's good or bad, but it looks better), just the faded ones. I can't tell if he's gilling fast or not. Do you have a pace on how fast he should be breathing? His breathing isn't as prounounced as it was yesterday. I wish I had a healthy baby tang to compare it to. Should it be the same as my yellow? He's a much bigger fish though (3-4").

Today the gramma has what looks like a cut across his top, just in front of his fin. I can't even imagine what could have happened to him. He's already getting garlic and selcon.

 

[steve-s]

Judging by the second video, the gilling is not as bad and the spots are visibley reduced. I think you can pass on the dip... 8)

Watch the gramma for signs of secondary infection. A torn/worn fin is no biggie but it can develope into something worse. Water changes and the Selcon should help with that.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Phyl]

It isn't a torn fin. It is a ... gash... across his upper "back" just in front of that fin on the top. The gash looks a little "fleshy". I'm not sure how I'd get a picture of him. He hides in his hole more often than not. He was out swimming this morning when the food went in and ate well (then back to his hole).

Don't let my use of technical terms intimidate you !

As for the Tang, I can barely see his gills move now (which makes it really hard to see how fast he's breathing).

In an effort to reduct the stress on the fish (the Tang in particular), I've added 2 more pieces of dry base rock to form a cave in the QT. The tang loves it. Hopefully the reduced stress will help his healing.

I can't thank you guys enough for being here with me step by step through this.

pH this morning was 8.1, salinity holding steady at 1.009

 

[steve-s]

It isn't a torn fin. It is a ... gash... across his upper "back" just in front of that fin on the top. The gash looks a little "fleshy". I'm not sure how I'd get a picture of him. He hides in his hole more often than not. He was out swimming this morning when the food went in and ate well (then back to his hole).

Watch for the onset of fungal infections and/or redness surrounding the wound. If you can maintain the water quality, the "gash" will begin to shrink and heal on it's own. As long as bacteria does not get a foothold, it should be fine.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Phyl]

Today's update is that I can just about count the spots (including the faded ones) on the tang! Looks like between 5 & 10 spots remaining. This fish is all tang. Man can he poop! He's eating like a pig. Cleans the nori off the clip and eats whatever else I put into the tank. It looks like we're on our way. What is the next thing that I have to watch for/worry about?

The gramma came out to eat last night, but just a little bit. A much fussier eater (what's their favorite food?). A bite or two was all she took. The gash on her head doesn't look any better/worse today and as far as I can tell she isn't showing any signs of ich anymore (though it is hard to really assess this since she hides so much).

 

[quarryshark]

What is the next thing that I have to watch for/worry about?

Spots should fade away completely. Other than that just keep water parameters in check.
Great job!!!

 

[Phyl]

The water parameters have been the easiest part! With the base rock in there to carry the cycle the tank has been self sufficient as far as the nitrification process is concerned. The Refractometer and pH meter have been invaluable as well. Sure wish I could find one of those for the nitrification process that didn't cost 1500$!

The worrying has really been the hardest part!