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Old 08-07-2014, 11:25 PM   #1
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Invertebrate "freeze" up and die?

Hello, recently I had a weird issue with my invertebrate, I have 2 tanks, one 35 gallon salt water tank, and one 60 gallon tank, both of these tanks are over 5 years old with no water changed ever on them, here are the specs:

1. Type & how long you have had it: 5 years
2. Current lighting & Bulb Age: led strip lighting, homemade, for a few months, before I had regular led/florescent tube lighting
3. Nitrate: 0 ppm
4. Calcium: don't know
5. Phosphate: don't know
6. Alkalinity: don't know
7. pH: 8.4
8. Salinity: 28-30 ppt
9. Temperature: 73
10. Liquid or strip test kits: saltwater liquid master test kit (tests PH, ammonia, nitrate, nitrite)
11. Location in tank: what?... in the living room
12. Current amount of flow: good
13. Current tank dosing regimen: ?
14. Nearby coral: no
15. Nitrite: 15 ppm
16. Ammonia: 0 ppm
17. Explanation of problem: When I put in new invertebrate in the large tank, they just freeze up and look like they are dead, but they are breathing and if you gently touch them (with my feed stick) or tap on the glass, they spaze out a little, but in my smaller tank, when I put them there, they came back to normal,

At first the pH level was 7.8, so I rose it back to 8.4 (the tank was almost unused for a few months, a infection killed all my fish) with a PH buffer,

So I put back the invertebrate to the big tank, and some went back to being "frozen" and some stayed normal, I guessed the rest would come back to normal...

But didn't, for a week, and now in my small tank, I have some spider crabs and other invertebrate that just also froze up, with the same symptoms, I made tests on both tanks, 1 week before and now, and for the small tank everything is the same (pH nitrite ammonia nitrate) whats going on??? in my algae scrubber/rain system filter I have a blue crab that eats waste, but hes not frozen unlike the rest, please help
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:30 PM   #2
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I couldnt fine the stunned spider crab... but here are the photos on the 35 gall
top left, the stunned shrimp, he was fine for weeks before, and just started like this yesterday, bottom left is the normal blue crab, led lighting is homemade with ALOT of blue, 2 colors of white, red, green, uv, strips
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Old 08-07-2014, 11:32 PM   #3
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and here are the photos for the 60 gal
top left, normal arrow crab, bottom left, frozen, crab, led is homemade, includes 2 collors of white light, red, green, lots of blue, uv light strips,
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:18 PM   #4
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your nitrite says 15ppm. That's 10 times a deadly level. Can your please repost that test level.
Not doing water changes for 5 years and NOT dosing is a recipe for disaster. Most people use regular water changes to remove a small amount of excess nutrients, but it ALSO, and more importantly replaces minerals the life needs. Alkalinity, for instance. What is your level at? Iodine is required by shellfish and normally replaced by water changes/new salt.
When the tank was infected, did you use any type of copper medication, or any medication for that matter in this tank? shellfish are hugely susceptible to copper meds. That could cause the 'stunning' effect.
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:27 PM   #5
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your nitrite says 15ppm. That's 10 times a deadly level. Can your please repost that test level.
Not doing water changes for 5 years and NOT dosing is a recipe for disaster. Most people use regular water changes to remove a small amount of excess nutrients, but it ALSO, and more importantly replaces minerals the life needs. Alkalinity, for instance. What is your level at? Iodine is required by shellfish and normally replaced by water changes/new salt.
When the tank was infected, did you use any type of copper medication, or any medication for that matter in this tank? shellfish are hugely susceptible to copper meds. That could cause the 'stunning' effect.
I did use medication, I don't remember if its a copper med but it did say remove all invertebrates before treating... but I didn't thought it would last 6 months... also are you sure that 15 ppm is 10x the deadly level? maybe I stated it wrong, because many people have 30 ppm and are in the "ehh" level, even my testing says anything below 40 ppm nitrite is ok. anyways so I guess i'm going to have to do a water change because of the useless medication...

can you please confirm this, because I was on a 4.5 year run without any water changes and never had a issue until now with a disease, and it would be disappointing that I would have to break that cycle just because there was a infection which the medication did not help...
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Old 08-11-2014, 02:34 PM   #6
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You mean nitrates? Nitrite is toxic above 0. I think not doing a water change in 5 years has finally caught up to you. Maybe it is time to do one?


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Old 08-11-2014, 06:34 PM   #7
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The issue you are speaking about is that you shocked your arrow crab by not acclimating things to the different tank most likely, which is especially not good with the nitrite reading... Nitrites levels go up when the beneficial bacteria in the tank are overwhelmed by the amount of stuff decomposing in the tank, extra food, poop, whatever the case maybe. The death of your mangrove is most likely adding to this issue. I would do some water changes to get the nitrite levels down to 0 to avoid further livestock death and to replenish some of your essential elements in the tank.
In terms of adding any type of medication, do NOT medicate your display tank. Most medications contain copper, which will be absorbed into your sand and rock. This will prevent you from keeping any inverts in the tank. There are 'herbal' medications towards things, but they are aimed at assisting with building up a healthy/thicker slime coat in fish in your tank. This stuff isn't of any real benefit towards things in all reality.
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Old 08-11-2014, 06:48 PM   #8
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This thread has been cleaned up. Just because you do not agree with someones methods does not mean it is ok to call names. Please keep it on topic or it will be closed.
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:19 PM   #9
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This thread has been cleaned up. Just because you do not agree with someones methods does not mean it is ok to call names. Please keep it on topic or it will be closed.
Well close it please, I have already got my answers, but then other people came along with useless answers
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Old 08-11-2014, 07:23 PM   #10
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Granted.
Remember, the tank you dosed with copper will have copper leaching out of the rock and sand continuously. There is a product called CupriSorb by Seachem that might be able to help you out...but never personally had to attempt such a feat.
You will also need to address your nitrite levels if they are at 15. If you miss typed the nitrite and nitrate levels, then that is a different story as nitrate levels under 40 is pretty acceptable depending on what you are doing in SW aquaria.
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