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Old 07-16-2004, 01:49 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hara
There are alot of vendors that sell things that have no business being in an aquarium...wanna discuss anemone and all of us that have them? There are alot of fish that dont ever really have a comfortable home in home aquaria, they are caught, sold and bought. If people didnt buy them, they wouldnt sell them. Plain and simple.

You do not live in a perfect world. It will never be perfect. If we decided to boycott every place that couldnt prove it didnt sell cyanide caught fish, (another environmental issue) none of us would have any. We do what we can where we can.
If you feel that strongly about it, write them a note.
Ease up, I'm not condemning anyone here. In fact, almost all of the information I have gotten about Idols and the difficulty in keeping them alive has come from this site. I have both FW and SW aquariums and would consider myself a hypocrite if I pretended that I am in this hobby for anything other than my own selfish enjoyment. Except for our own amusement, we would all leave the fish in the ocean.

I do think that everyone agrees that keeping Idols is a risky proposition at best so I don't see any harm in having a discussion about why they are sold, how they are sold, and the people who sell them.

The folks over at saltwater.com may in fact be very good business people and overall conscientious in their efforts - from the sound of things, that is probably the case.

Atari, as always, you make a good point. Perhaps one day keeping Idols will be less hazardous to the fish. Still, until that time, I don't think anyone would disagree that perhaps providing potential buyers with a little more information than the word "difficult" is a bad idea.
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Old 07-16-2004, 02:01 AM   #12
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I agree with most of the above, but remember. This business like anything else, it is driven by supply and demand. If we continue to educate people (like this thread) then perhaps the demand will someday diminish and the suppliers will stop capturing these animals and leave them where they belong.....in the sea.
Good thread, excellent subject!!
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Old 07-16-2004, 02:06 AM   #13
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Actually I've read that Moorish Idols are only difficult to keep because they are picky eaters and sensitive to water conditions. So if someone has an established tank with good water quality and a good amount of liverock, they likely are not that hard to keep if you find a tank raised one that eats regularly. They have a short lifespan of only a couple years, but it is hard to say what their wild lifespan is.
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Old 07-16-2004, 02:10 AM   #14
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blah blah blah if you dont want one dont buy one that will teach them
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Old 07-16-2004, 02:18 AM   #15
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Thanks QS. Sometimes I come across a little arrogant or preachy in print - which is definitely not my intention. I certainly don't mean to alienate anyone. I was just surprised after everything I have read here at AA about the difficulty of keeping these fish alive, to see them for sale online. 8O We may not be not be animal rights activists, but I'm glad we're not so calloused that we disregard the quality of life for the fish altogether.
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Old 07-16-2004, 02:20 AM   #16
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From what I understand, a lot of LFS (At least the ones by me) and online vendors don't even pick out the livestock that they receive. They have a supplier that ships them livestock and a list of whats in it and they get what they get. So when a retailer receives a fish that most say should not be kept in aquariums, what should they do, send it back? I think that would be more stressful on the fish then them keeping it and trying to sell it. NOw I now of a few stores around me that do it the old fashion way and get their livestock from wholesalers, and believe me, they know not to sell these fish. The only problem is, like stated previously, the people catching the fish have no clue about which fish don't survive in aquariums, they are just catching anything and everything to put food on the table. So who then do we blame?

And BTW, I've never heard of a tank raised idol, really didnt they would live long enough in captivity or have the proper enviroment to breed. correct me if im wrong on any of this.

However, last time i visited the long beach aquarium, they had a school of 6 or 7 idols in their shark touch tank. Absolutely beautiful when they school!
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Old 07-16-2004, 02:21 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSpirit
Actually I've read that Moorish Idols are only difficult to keep because they are picky eaters and sensitive to water conditions. So if someone has an established tank with good water quality and a good amount of liverock, they likely are not that hard to keep if you find a tank raised one that eats regularly. They have a short lifespan of only a couple years, but it is hard to say what their wild lifespan is.
If that is the case, it is certainly different than the picture that has been painted recently. From what I understand, they often die in pristine conditions with no warning at all. I would love to hear from anyone who has kept one successfully for any length of time.
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Old 07-16-2004, 02:23 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBReef
From what I understand, a lot of LFS (At least the ones by me) and online vendors don't even pick out the livestock that they receive. They have a supplier that ships them livestock and a list of whats in it and they get what they get. So when a retailer receives a fish that most say should not be kept in aquariums, what should they do, send it back?
That would certainly change things.
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Old 07-16-2004, 02:24 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divemasterjim
blah blah blah if you dont want one dont buy one that will teach them
Don't feel obligated to post if you're not interested in the topic.
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Old 07-16-2004, 02:25 AM   #20
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Im just guessing on tank raised stuff. Dosent make sense to me that every fish I and all of you have came from some guy with a net out in the ocean.

I just cant stand when someone gets out there soap box

bottom line if you disagree dont buy one if they cant sell them they wont carry them! Im guessing with all the fis stores out there that sell them some people are able to care for them other wise there wouldnt be a demand. Number one rule in business .....supply and demand.

by the way and just for the record I hate animal rights activist those people need to get a clue.
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60 Galon Tank
(3) Maxi Jet 1200
Eheim 2213 filter
CPR Bak Pak Protein skimmer
Rena 200 watt heater
T-5 Ligihting
(2) 54 watt
(2) 36 watt
Water General RO+DI
(4) Homade Moonlights LED 470nm
87# Live Rock Gulf, Keys, Bali
80# Crushed Coral with Aragonite
(2) Percula Clownfish
(1) 3 Spot Domino Damselfish
(2) Yellowtail Damselfish
(2) Sargent Major Damselfish
(1) Choclate Chip Starfish
(3) Brittle Stars
Lots of Snails and Hermit Crabs (Not Identified)
(5) Crab (Not Identified)
(2) Black Urchin
(10) Dwarf Red tipped Hermit crabs
(7) Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs
(9) Mexican Turbo Snails
(3) Peppermint Shrimp
Lots of other stuff (Not Identified)
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