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Old 07-16-2004, 08:00 PM   #51
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MY 2 CENTS
I think its not irresponsible, is just how they manage their business, for what i read a African Neon Goby could be as hard to keep as a Great White so maybe some people is totally compromised with this kind of matters and dare to push themselves as far as they can for the sake of the species.

I agree with Atari's last Reply if someone could find the secret will mean less WC flushes!

JH
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Old 07-16-2004, 08:21 PM   #52
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Sorry forgot to mention that the lr had plenty of sponge growing on it at all times, and yes I fed it sponge too.
Roughly how much of the total diet you fed was comprised of the sponge food (if you could put it into a percentage)? Just curious, as to compare your story with others.
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Old 07-16-2004, 08:24 PM   #53
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Does anyone think there's any validity in the argument that if we really care, we shouldn't keep any animals in captivity at all?
I was gonna ask that but got to drunk last night
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Old 07-16-2004, 08:36 PM   #54
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Some folks will always take this kind of thing to the extreme. Saying that its untehical or irresponsible to keep corals, fish or other inverts at all. I dont see it that way. Its simular to the radical PETA people who would rather starve a bunch of wild creatures rather than allow controled hunting to keep populations down to where they dont cause a health risk to themselves nor do they pose a significant risk to humans (be that over agressive behavor due to lack of natural food or be that from getting hit by cars, etc).

Its important to know what can be successfuly kept alive and at what skill level one should attempt something and to know if the end result is failure when to just conceed and move on.

Ill give you an example from my own tank. I purchase my wife a flame angel back in Nov of last year. It did ok but never was very active and never ate well. In a few weeks time the fish turned up missing totally. I told her it was likly cyiniade posioned. For christmas I purchased 1 more flame angel and when I showed it to her I told her that if this one does not make it then we will never purchase another flame. Im happy to report that the second flame is living happly in our 75 now for whats going on 8 months.

I know Eric Bornman is developing a 'black list' of corals that he will be publishing soon. These are corals that historicly have proven themselves to have a very poor survivability rate in the aquarium. Education is the key. Seeing an idol in a ank at a LFS is a horrible site because we all know its never going to get back to its natural habitat. Whats even worse it to know that for that one idol thats in the store tank probably 9 have died along the way. What we can do is try to inform the shop keepers and even those patrions that are looking at such fish of their dismal surviability rate. The best that can come out of it is the shop keeper no longer orders them and the worse is that you no longer be welcome in the store. If the later happens then well im sure there are many other stores that would welcome your business.
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Old 07-16-2004, 08:40 PM   #55
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divemasterjim wrote:
I just cant stand when someone gets out there soap box.

You do understand the concept of a forum don't you?

[quote]
by the way and just for the record I hate animal rights activist those people need to get a clue

And that clue would be?
[quote]
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CPR Bak Pak Protein skimmer
Rena 200 watt heater
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(2) 36 watt
Water General RO+DI
(4) Homade Moonlights LED 470nm
87# Live Rock Gulf, Keys, Bali
80# Crushed Coral with Aragonite
(2) Percula Clownfish
(1) 3 Spot Domino Damselfish
(2) Yellowtail Damselfish
(2) Sargent Major Damselfish
(1) Choclate Chip Starfish
(3) Brittle Stars
Lots of Snails and Hermit Crabs (Not Identified)
(5) Crab (Not Identified)
(2) Black Urchin
(10) Dwarf Red tipped Hermit crabs
(7) Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs
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Old 07-16-2004, 08:40 PM   #56
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by the way and just for the record I hate animal rights activist those people need to get a clue

And that clue would be?
Sorry for the double post I messed up
The problem with animal rights activist (this also applies to my soap box comment) is the fact that some people find fault with something and think they have to fix it by telling others what to do, forcing their belief onto others. They go to extremes and can get fanatical just because they dont agree. This is one of the biggest problems in the world. Look at most of the major problems in the world right now, in one way or another they are because someone thinks they are right and must force their belief on everyone else THATS NOT FREEDOM. No one tells me what I can and cant do bottom line.
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60 Galon Tank
(3) Maxi Jet 1200
Eheim 2213 filter
CPR Bak Pak Protein skimmer
Rena 200 watt heater
T-5 Ligihting
(2) 54 watt
(2) 36 watt
Water General RO+DI
(4) Homade Moonlights LED 470nm
87# Live Rock Gulf, Keys, Bali
80# Crushed Coral with Aragonite
(2) Percula Clownfish
(1) 3 Spot Domino Damselfish
(2) Yellowtail Damselfish
(2) Sargent Major Damselfish
(1) Choclate Chip Starfish
(3) Brittle Stars
Lots of Snails and Hermit Crabs (Not Identified)
(5) Crab (Not Identified)
(2) Black Urchin
(10) Dwarf Red tipped Hermit crabs
(7) Scarlet Reef Hermit Crabs
(9) Mexican Turbo Snails
(3) Peppermint Shrimp
Lots of other stuff (Not Identified)
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Old 07-16-2004, 08:51 PM   #57
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eh?
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Old 07-16-2004, 08:52 PM   #58
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eh?
Thats what I was thinking......hmm....
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Old 07-16-2004, 09:01 PM   #59
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my 1 1/2 cent this hobby has come such a long way in the past 10 years ! and why ? cause people tried different methods of keeping their tanks healthy ! how many mandarins died and are still dieing ? but knowing that live rock and fuges are the way to go have made it so we can keep these fish right !?! so with out people trying like atari stated then what do ya all want? to leave the animals in the ocean and not study/learn how to keep them alive and allow this sick world to pollute the oceans (exxon in alaska how many times will this happen)? we as humans have caused sooooo much more harm on soooo many more land animals! look at how many we know of that are extinct !! if we were smarter we could have caught some and started captive breeding ! the ocean is 3/4 of the world and we are starting to make an impact on the life in it but nothing compared to land animals !! so instead of fighting the issue that you will never ever win !! why not spend your time trying to grow sponges in your fuge so you can feed such animals !! i really dont buy the fact they need a 500 gallon tank !! they need food !! just like a tang what do most do??? they clip seaweed onto a clip for them to eat !! why couldnt you learn to grow sponges and clip them for food ? the answer isnt imo to leave them and not try thats giving up !! this world is falling apart in soooo many ways and nothing can or will be done now most the damage is done !! and id bet and god if i won the lottery it would be my goal to work on such issues cause it can be done but not with our current ideas !! ive always wondered we collect everything else why isnt there sponge foods?? its silly
i do agree that not all should try but with the time money and effort someone has to do it cause our greedy goverment only cares about one thing thats money
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Old 07-16-2004, 09:09 PM   #60
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This is one of the biggest problems in the world. Look at most all the major problems in the world now, they are because someone thinks they are right and must force it on everyone else THATS NOT FREEDOM


sooooooooooooooooooooooooo agreeeee every one worries what eveyone else is doing !! one thing i hate the most we spend soooo much money on drug control for what ?? it been going on for years! you can only police people as much as they want to be policed bottom line ! also pot would be legal right now if the goverment new they could control and make all the money from it !! but due to the fact people can grow it them selfs then they couldnt make money or as much !! if we spend the money we try to stop drugs on helping people with problems instead of treating them like they have the plague our world would be better off !! look at mexico there isnt a drinking age ya never see teenagers in the bars !! whys that !! cause they have been allowed to drink and it not a big deal anymore !! most humans act this way if ya say no you cant have sex/drink what ever then it sparks an interest as to why and then it starts !
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