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Old 07-15-2004, 11:32 PM   #1
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Irresponsible???

Another thread is asking whether or not to order from saltwaterfish.com. I started looking at their livestock and noticed that they sell Moorish Idols right over the internet.

Does anyone think it is irresponsible to sell Moorish Idols over the internet as this site does? Click Here . I think to say these are difficult to keep is a major understatement. I would hope that anyone selling these fish would at least make sure the potential buyer is sufficiently educated and has a system capable of maintaining these fish - if that's even realistically possible.

I think that this site (AA) is a great educational tool. Some times we all learn things the hard way - but then we come here to share our experiences so that hopefully they are not repeated by others. I know we have all learned a great deal from what Rev went through with his Idol.

I have noticed that, by far, the most often recommended book for beginners on this site is The Conscientious Marine Aquarist. Do you think it is very conscientious to recommend or use a dealer who sells Moorish Idols - especially in this fashion?

I'll get off the soapbox now. I just think this is worth discussing.
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Old 07-15-2004, 11:42 PM   #2
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dont matter to me ! the choice should be mine not anyone elses, if i want it i get it end of story, so im glad people provide them. Im guessing but probably not correct wouldnt most be tank raised? isnt it easier to grow fish then to hunt them?also this is a stereo type they dont all die lots of people do ok with them. But then again i could be wrong. just my two cents
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Old 07-15-2004, 11:52 PM   #3
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I know where you're coming from saberry, but I guess business is business. Notice how there's no book called The Conscientious Marine LFS..

It's probably unrealistic to expect any business to deliberately lose out on a potential sale. I think the onus has to fall on the aquarist to be educated enough not to make these kinds of purchases. If no one buys then they stop stocking them, simple as that. It's even hard to blame the people that catch them in the first place since they also are just trying to put food on the table.

It's a hot topic, but in my opinion the only way it will get better is with better education. There might be a guy at the bottom of my street selling drugs but I know not to buy them.. you get the idea..

So no, I don't think I would boycott a LFS over this.
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Old 07-15-2004, 11:58 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by divemasterjim
dont matter to me ! the choice should be mine not anyone elses, if i want it i get it end of story, so im glad people provide them. Im guessing but probably not correct wouldnt most be tank raised? isnt it easier to grow fish then to hunt them?also this is a stereo type they dont all die lots of people do ok with them. But then again i could be wrong. just my two cents
From everything I have read, it is almost certain that they will die in captivity within a few months. Given this, I don't think it is at all likely that they are tank bred.
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Old 07-16-2004, 12:03 AM   #5
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Well.... they do state that the care level is difficult. And they have a 6 day guarantee on lots of their fish. I have heard the powder blue tangs are very difficult to keep alive and healthy, but tons of shops still sell them.
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Old 07-16-2004, 12:05 AM   #6
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On that site, when you click on the Moorish Idol link, it states:

Care level: Difficult

It's up to the aquarist to decide if they are capable of taking care of a fish or not and to research it appropriately. I'm sure some people are capable of taking care of this fish and are glad that they offer it. A lot of people are extremely dissatisfied with their LFSs and must resort to purchasing fish over the internet (the one closest to me has white yellow tangs).
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Old 07-16-2004, 12:11 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Atari
I know where you're coming from saberry, but I guess business is business. Notice how there's no book called The Conscientious Marine LFS..

It's probably unrealistic to expect any business to deliberately lose out on a potential sale. I think the onus has to fall on the aquarist to be educated enough not to make these kinds of purchases. If no one buys then they stop stocking them, simple as that. It's even hard to blame the people that catch them in the first place since they also are just trying to put food on the table.

It's a hot topic, but in my opinion the only way it will get better is with better education. There might be a guy at the bottom of my street selling drugs but I know not to buy them.. you get the idea..

So no, I don't think I would boycott a LFS over this.
Atari, I get your point and I'm not really suggesting a boycott. I guess what got me on this tangent was that the original poster was asking whether or not to buy from that supplier. If, as you would assume, the supplier knows the problems associated with keeping idols, isn't it unethical of them to sell them? If you think it unethical, would you still recommend them?

To use your analogy, it would be like recommending that a child go play at the local park but not telling him to steer clear of the drug dealer on the corner.
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Old 07-16-2004, 12:14 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NightSpirit
On that site, when you click on the Moorish Idol link, it states:

Care level: Difficult

It's up to the aquarist to decide if they are capable of taking care of a fish or not and to research it appropriately. I'm sure some people are capable of taking care of this fish and are glad that they offer it. A lot of people are extremely dissatisfied with their LFSs and must resort to purchasing fish over the internet (the one closest to me has white yellow tangs).
Maybe it should read, "Care level: Animal will likely die within a few months."
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Old 07-16-2004, 12:19 AM   #9
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Well I realised after hitting submit that it was a pretty bad analogy, lol

I'm actually not sure if it's unethical.. I'm sure there are other species that were once considered similarly difficult to keep but are now much more common. Perhaps the only way someone will ever discover the secret is if they are freely available to all.
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Old 07-16-2004, 12:23 AM   #10
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There are alot of vendors that sell things that have no business being in an aquarium...wanna discuss anemone and all of us that have them? There are alot of fish that dont ever really have a comfortable home in home aquaria, they are caught, sold and bought. If people didnt buy them, they wouldnt sell them. Plain and simple.

You do not live in a perfect world. It will never be perfect. If we decided to boycott every place that couldnt prove it didnt sell cyanide caught fish, (another environmental issue) none of us would have any. We do what we can where we can.
If you feel that strongly about it, write them a note.
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