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Old 03-15-2008, 07:01 AM   #1
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Killer Anemone

I bought an anemone and 2 cleaner shrimp yesterday. This morning I have no live clownfish. 1 was dead within reach of the anemone, the other looked like something had done something to his tail fin, I assume it was one of the new arrivals since I haven't had any problems since I got rid of my killer damsels.
Killer Damsels

Unfortunately I don't know what species of anemone it is. My mother picked it up from the LFS, who said it was ok for the clownfish, IMO my LFS is not very good, they couldn't test my water for ammonia and I think they give poor advice about fish. It is a problem also that it is not my tank, it is my dad's, all he does is pick out the fish. I tell him to slow down and stop adding, and my LFS are like salesmen trying to offload fish.

I do all the work and he comes along and messes it up.

Current contents:
2 dead clownfish-should I let the anemone and the shrimp eat them or will I take them out?
1 cleaner wrasse
2 Cardinals
2 Gobies
1 Royal Gramma
1 Anemone
2 Cleaner shrimp

I will add water parameters soon
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Old 03-15-2008, 12:04 PM   #2
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Wow, sorry for your losses. Of course we can't really help without water parameters, but guess.
How do you acclimate you new arrivals? That cleaner wrasse might starve, since their primary diet it picking parasites off of your fish.
Can you get a pic of the anem? How old is the tank and what is your lighting situation?
I would take the dead clowns out, otherwise you will get an ammonia spike.
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Old 03-15-2008, 02:28 PM   #3
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My aquarium is doomed I am afraid, I tell them the water isn't good enough for invertebrates so they go and buy some invertebrates (they=parents, I am 18 and still living at home). They just go out to the fish shop with no plan and pick out whatever looks nice. They have already bought 2 more clownfish to replace the ones that died this morning, I told them that it probably wasn't the greatest idea in the world but instead of doing research they are going to experiment with some fish.

My LFS are as clueless as my parents, they said that the death wasn't due to the anemone, but still recommended getting more fish even though they didn't know the cause of death.

The anemone is a heteractis malu is seems, not compatible with the common clownfish I think.

Not much I can do in situations such as these, I can't really overrule my parents. It is frustrating for me to do all the hard work and then see it all go down the drain. I'll leave it all to them.

Most likely that all fish will be dead within a month under their care.
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Old 03-15-2008, 02:39 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shieler View Post
h.

My LFS are as clueless as my parents
This who is really to blame. He should be doing water test results and telling your parents to be patient. Unfortunately his job is to make money. Just as kindly as you can just try to show them that patience and husbandry is the way to go. I know its not easy.
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Old 03-16-2008, 10:08 AM   #5
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Unfortunately as I predicted 1 of the new clownfish is already dead, the other one does not look too healthy. I didn't pay too much attention to the tank since I am pretty frustrated at the moment but I noticed that the shrimp were very interested in the clowns, especially when they went near the anemone. Could a cleaner shrimp kill a fish?

If it were up to me I would bring back the anemone, the 2 shrimp, the remaining clown and the cleaner wrasse. My parents will probably just keep adding more and more.

I have tried to explain the situation to them but they are stubborn. I would prefer no fish at all if this is the way it is going to be.

I predict that the shrimp will be dead within 1 week, the anemone and the wrasse will be dead within 2 weeks and the clownfish will probably die today.

I would love to call the cruelty to animals association on my parents (providing that they are interested in fish), should I?
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Old 03-16-2008, 01:37 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Shieler View Post
Unfortunately as I predicted 1 of the new clownfish is already dead, the other one does not look too healthy. I didn't pay too much attention to the tank since I am pretty frustrated at the moment but I noticed that the shrimp were very interested in the clowns, especially when they went near the anemone. Could a cleaner shrimp kill a fish?
I'd find it pretty hard to believe!

Quote:
If it were up to me I would bring back the anemone, the 2 shrimp, the remaining clown and the cleaner wrasse.
That seems like a good plan. Was the tank even cycled properly? Not sure when you started maintaining it, but it seems like getting ahold of some ammonia/nitrite test kits might be a good idea. I'm thinking that you probably have some moderate levels of both, and maybe THAT might be the thing that slowly sheds some light to your parents that all is not well with the tank?

Quote:
My parents will probably just keep adding more and more.
You might be right... and there's another set of people to spread the "saltwater is too hard, too expensive" myth. (Although it IS more expensive than other hobbies!_

Quote:
I have tried to explain the situation to them but they are stubborn. I would prefer no fish at all if this is the way it is going to be.

I predict that the shrimp will be dead within 1 week, the anemone and the wrasse will be dead within 2 weeks and the clownfish will probably die today.

I would love to call the cruelty to animals association on my parents (providing that they are interested in fish), should I?
Shrimp are pretty tough little guys, and anemones seem to linger on a slow, pitiful death. But you might be right about the fish. Yes... it's terrible to watch when it can be prevented, but I'm not so sure I'd pick a fight with your parents over this one. The old adage of "pick your battles wisely" comes to mind and in the big scheme of things this one probably isn't a wise one to pick.

While this isn't "parentadvice.com", if it was me... I'd just plain refuse to do the maintenance on the tank anymore. Just flat tell them (nicely) that you don't agree with how they're stocking the tank, that it's cruel to the fish, and your conscience can't let you be a part of the destruction of these animals anymore. Obviously you can't control your parent's actions (just as much as I'm sure they really couldn't control YOURS not so many years ago!) but you don't have to be a part of it.

It probably won't stop the destruction in the tank, but at least you can walk away with a clean conscience. If they stick with the hobby, they'll eventually understand that what you were saying was right. But just like anything in life, if someone is dead set against hearing you out, there's nothing you can do to change that. I'm sure you didn't heed ALL their advice when YOU were growing up, eh? I know I didn't with mine! (And now that I have two kids of my own... my parents don't seem that dumb anymore! )
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Old 03-16-2008, 05:14 PM   #7
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Thanks for the advice. I guess I'll just play the waiting game, they'll come to their senses eventually I suppose/ or get too lazy to maintain the tank.

I do have the test kits:
last test (yesterday)
temp:25.6 Degrees Celsius
pO4: 0.35
SG:1.021
NO3: 30ppm
NO2:0.1
pH:8.4
KH:220
Ammonia:0.1

25% water change every 2 weeks

The tank was probably not cycled properly, I'd like to blame the LFS as I followed their advice, but I should have researched it myself. ATM it is good enough for fish just about I think but not invertebrates.

It is crazy, they just added 2 firefish.
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Old 03-16-2008, 05:17 PM   #8
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Only one making out on this deal is the POS LFS. To bad the fish have to die. Gotta do something to break the cycle... Hmm.. break.. interesting word.. b r e a k. Hmmmmmmmm
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Old 03-16-2008, 06:51 PM   #9
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Can you convince your parents that you need to QT all new fish for 30 days before adding them to the main tank?
That would buy you a little time to get the water parameters in the main tank worked out first too. It's also a best practice so that you do not introduce a disease or parasite into your display tank.

Ammonia and NO2 should be ZERO, NO4 should come down and PO4 is also too high, but you know that already.

Can you print out some of the responses you get here to show your parents? Do you think that would help? Or get them a copy of The New Marine Aquarium: Step-By-Step Setup & Stocking Guide by Mike Paletta?
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Old 03-16-2008, 07:01 PM   #10
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The tank hasn't been completely cycled (or prob because they keep adding fish) but there shouldn't be any NH3 or NO2. You need to lower the PO4 also and increase the sg to around 1.025-1.027 for anemones. And what type of lighting do you have? sebae's need relatively high light since they are bottom dwelling anemones and the light has to penetrate to the bottom of the tank. What color is the anemone? Start doing 25% pwc's every day or every other day and test for NH3 everyday. If the anemone dies and you dont get it out in time (say if it died during the night) then EVERYTHING will die.

Also how big is the tank?

You should try to get your parents to listen to you and stop killing fish, but it seems either they won't listen or your not trying hard enough.

If it were me and I couldn't get them to listen then I would take all the fish and inverts (everything living back to the lfs, or a better lfs if I could find one) then I would just get p'ssed off and take a baseball bat to the tank so they would have to buy a new tank, maybe if they have to buy a couple tanks they will get the picture and learn more or stop buying fish . But that's just me. Luckily my dad knows I know more than he does and let's me handle everything, he just enjoys the final result, I do the work.
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