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Old 05-25-2010, 12:01 AM   #1
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Kole Tang not doing good

I have a 4" Kole Tang in my QT. He has been in there for almost 2 weeks and has been doing great other than really shy, but tonight I noticed him breathing heavily and laying down often. He has been eating some dried algae on a clip pretty good. I have noticed that his mouth is open all the time and appears kinda swollen, but I don't know if that is normal or not. All of my parameters are 0, temp is 80. I have PVC for hiding which he uses every time he see's someone. I was just about to put him in my display tank since he was doing so good. There are no spots on him and no other signs of disease. Then only thing I could think of is being as big as he is in a 10g QT, but he always acted pretty relaxed until he tried to hide when he saw you. Anyone have any idea's?
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:57 AM   #2
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How often are you doing PWC's in the QT tank?
Do you have an established bio filter in the tank?
Have you done any treatment in the QT (hypo, parasites [PraziPro, etc.])?
What is it hiding in/behind?
Do you have pvc parts or other items for it to hide in?

PWCs are the quickest and easiest way to treat a fish, especially in a 10 gallon QT.

There's a reason for a 30 day QT period. Start some PWC's and keep an eye on it.
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:27 PM   #3
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I have been doing PWC of about 20% once a week and add about a half a gallon of fresh water every other day due to evaporation. I check my parameters every couple of days as well and everything is always at 0. I have a sponge filter that I keep in my sump for natural bacteria, and I have a hang on filter for mechanical filtration. I have several PVC fittings he can hide in, and he was using them regularly when he would see me, but if I peeked in he was swimming around and eating from the clip until yesterday when I got home from work. I hadn't treated him for anything since all was going good, but when I noticed him last night I did an immediate parameter check, and a 50% water change just in case. When I do the PWC I pull water from my display. I added some methylene blue as well. Late last night he was still breathing heavily and laying on his side, and as of this morning he was gone. This is the same method I have used before and all has worked well except for the last two fish I have bought. One was a powder brown tang, and now the kole tang. The powder seemed really stressed in such a small tank for qt and I think that is what did him in, but the kole seemed relaxed other than being shy. Whould there have been a better medication to use when I noticed him breathing heavily and such?
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:01 AM   #4
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You should always use freshly mixed, but aerated sw for a QT, not water from the tank. If there is any problem in the DT you will transfer it to the QT. Water from the DT may be depleted of trace minerals (that's one of the reasons for doing PWC's).

WHY did you add Methylene Blue ? Did you see any signs of a fungal infection?

"Methylene Blue is not indicated for the treatment of Oodinium, bacterial infections, flukes (monogenetic trematodes) or for moderately-severe to severe fungal infections. It is not indicated for use as a net disinfectant or sterilizer.
The use of Methylene Blue is primarily for the control of fungus on eggs, and to assist the transport of oxygen in fish poisoned by cyanide and nitrite ion"

I was going to suggest that cyanide capture may be cause for a fish that exhibits those symptoms about 2 weeks into QT. No way to tell for sure unless you know where the came from and how they were caught.
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Old 05-26-2010, 12:36 AM   #5
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hmmm,,,, I have heard many people that use water from the DT in the QT because it will help acclimate the fish to the same water that is in the tank? It is a good thought though, and maybe start with fresh water, then slowly change over to the DT water as you get close to the end of the QT cycle and all is going well? I think I will look into this a little more before my next try.

That is a good question as to why I used Methylene Blue, but my first thought was on the Powder Brown he definitely had some infections from ich and I had heard Methylene Blue would help relax their breathing and help treat the infection. I'm thinking my source of this information was incorrect, but unfortunately I don't remember where I saw that as it was last year during my initial build that I had read it. I do know I used it a couple of times on a fresh water dip on a couple of fish I bought last year and it worked, but only in the dip water.

You mention Cyanide capture,,,,, and ya know,,, that is very possible right there. Both of these fish came from Petco, and I have heard bad things about some of their fish. The Powder brown was very nice looking, with no marks, very thick and acted 100% perfect and appeared to be very healthy overall. He would even come right up to me as I was putting algae on a clip. Their prices are hard to beat, and in fact, they were right at half what I could find anywhere else. The Kole was very similar, with the exception of him being very shy. Most of my other fish either came from a regular aquarium store, or online. Maybe I should do more research before supporting Petco if they are using cyanide.
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Old 05-26-2010, 09:04 AM   #6
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It would not be Petco that is using cyanide. It is the locals at the collection point. I beleive that through education and a netting program (giving collectors new nets and educating them about the reef environment) the use of cyanide for capture is on the decline, but it has not been eliminated. It makes the collection process easy and who cares if the fish die in 3 or 4 weeks. They have already been paid.

You mention the fish is recovering from Ich! That doesn't happen in two weeks. Please explain. When did you notice the Ich and what treatment did you use?
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Old 05-26-2010, 11:55 AM   #7
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I agree on the cyanide,,,,, and lets all hope all efforts to stop it, work....

The Kole never showed any signs of ich,,,, not a single bit.. In fact, he never showed any signs of anything until that last day.

The powder brown looked perfect in the store, but he had only been there 1 day. I knew it was a risk, but I knew he wouldn't still be there in a few days if I didn't get him, and they won't hold them at this store. When I got him home I acclimated him over 3 hrs and all went well. I put him in the QT and he seemed very active, and I could tell he didn't like that small tank. About 2 days into it, I noticed a couple of small specs on his side, but I didn't want to treat just yet as I was hoping his natural immune system would do the work. He wasn't flashing or anything at this point, but still very very active. On day 4 I noticed him starting to flash against the pvc fittings and such, and there were more white specs on him, so I decided to treat with coppersafe. The treatment went well, and all specs were gone within 2 days and the flashing had stopped. Knowing these tangs don't do well with copper, I didn't want to leave it too long, but long enough to kill the ich. 3 days after all signs of ich was gone, I did a partial water change to dilute the copper somewhat. At this point he still was very active, but some sore spots were starting to develop and some discoloration in patches. Another day later it was worse, so I added some meds for the infections, but it never seemed to help, and the spots got larger. During this whole time he wasn't eating very much,,,,, just a small amount here and there, and he was constantly swimming about and always pretty fast. Sometimes even just in circles or figure 8's, so I know the small tank was stressing him. Within a couple more days the spots had grown and his skin on those spots looked to be rotting. Another day or so and he was gone. He was the first one I had ever had to treat for an infection, and it obviously didn't go well, but I think I would have been better off with a larger QT to start with. He was never scared, would come right up to my hand as I was putting algae on the clip and would never hide, so I think he just wanted more space, and that was adding alot of stress, which definitely didn't help his situation. I don't remember what meds I used for his infection since I am at work now. It was some my neighbor had given me when he took his tank down, but it is for infections and I treated according to it's directions. I can try to look tonight for what kind it was.
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Old 05-28-2010, 12:14 AM   #8
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You got the fish at a size that was large for a 10g QT.

I have found that Hyposalinity works best for Ich, and some use it prophylacticaly in QT for all new fish aquisitions. It also reduces stress on fish to a small degree. Others choose to medicate in QT, again as a prophylactic.

Chalk this one up and choose more juvenile fish in the future or get a larger QT <g>.
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Old 05-28-2010, 02:53 AM   #9
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Yea, I agree.... I knew powder browns liked bigger tanks, but I ask the guy at the store and he said it should be fine. I would still like to have a powder brown, so I think I'll hunt down a smaller one at some point after I am a little more prepared. I have used hyposalinity once, but only for a short time,,,, all went well with it, but it was a minor case anyway. I'll do some more research and possibly use that method next time. Thanks for all the help,,,,, I definitely appreciate it!
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:39 PM   #10
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Hypo takes a minimum or 4 weeks. Anything less won't give you any assurance of a cure.

Hyposalinity
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