Lion Fish has ICK-- Help!!! - Aquarium Advice

heatherfish · 05-16-2008, 04:17 PM

Hello!!
Help!!!! I have a Lion-Fish that is seeming to pick up a case of Ick! This morning I went to give Paula the lionfish his morning snack and I noticed there were white spots on his eyes and fins. Also, we lost a Puffer Fish last night that was in a QT. I cleaned out the QT throughly, let it dry, and put Paula in there. He isn't completely on the bottom, but a part of him is resting on a rock.

I tried to drop some krill in front of him, but no luck. He just isn't happy. I am starting to treat him with: Nitrofuracin Green Powder as per the directions. Is this okay?? There is a pic of him at the bottom, and it has cleared up much (but ick does that during the day and comes back at night to be very bad in the AM), but I want to keep him in the QT to ensure he gets treatment and a full recovery. Losing my puffer was bad enough, I dont' want to lose Paula too!!!!

any advice would help. Below are my tank details....

1) water parameters - Nitrite level: 0.2 / PH: 7.8 / Nitrate: 10 / Ammonia: 0.0

2) Tank size and a list of ALL inhabitants. 55 gal, 2 clown, 1 lion fish, 3 cardinals, 3 damsals, 2 anemones and one coral, 2 small snails, a couple crabs

3) Feeding, water change schedule and a list of all products you are using or have added to the tank (examples: Cycle, Amquel, salt, etc) I feed the lion fish daily, and feed the other fish a rotation between formula 2, flakes, and mysis shrimp every couple days or so. I tried to feed Theo Mysis daily, but he doesn't go for it. If he doesn't go for the first couple i throw in, i dont add any more. Water changes every two weeks.. We have live sand at the bottom.

4) What changes you've made in the tank in the last week or so. Sometimes its the little things that make all the difference. None at all. Everyone is doing excellent.

5) How long the aquarium has been set up, and how did you cycle it? If you don't know what cycling is read this: Fishless Cycling Article and familiarize yourself with all the information. Yes. All of it. It has been set up for seven months. It was cycled during the first month w/ live sand, plants, and live rock. Lost a couple damsals, but after that, we added the snails and crabs and they keep everything under control along w/ water changes.

Please help!!!

Thanks!!
HeatherFish

**roka64** · 05-16-2008, 04:51 PM

Welcome to the site!
Sorry for your loss!
If you have ich, you will need to remove all your fish from the main tank and let it run fallow for 6 weeks.
Have you ever done hyposalinity treatment?
You also have a small amount of nitrItes in your tank, so you may want to do another PWC to get rid of them.
You may also want to soak your frozen in garlic guard for 20-30 minutes to help boost their immune systems (and it might get the lion eating again).

heatherfish · 05-16-2008, 05:07 PM

I haven't. We are going to do anyohte PWC tomorrow, and then again on Wednesday, to try and get everything up to par and remove and parisites that might be left in the tank.

We have the live anemones, live rock, and coral along with the "live sand" at the bottom so I am hesitant to do any whole tank treatments. Let me ask you, do you think it would be more benificial to put the anemones, live rock, and coral in the QT to live for a while and treat all the fish in the main tank at once, and then place them back after a complete water cycle? The cardinals have shown signs of ick, but not today and the damsils and clowns are thriving.

I really don't want to lose any fish or plants.......

**roka64** · 05-16-2008, 05:41 PM

I wouldn't attempt to treat your whole tank, especially if you have a QT. That could kill off your beneficial bacteria. Also, I don't know if it would be wise to put move the anens in a QT unless it has been established for about 9 months (water chemistry is not as stable in newer tanks).
How big is your QT?

**melosu58** · 05-16-2008, 05:52 PM

I agree dont treat your main tank. Treat the Lion in the QT. Try Hyposalinity.

Read these.

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

heatherfish · 05-16-2008, 05:54 PM

Its 15 gallons.

Innovator · 05-16-2008, 10:27 PM

Well first off, Nitrofuracine Green is for treating bacterial infections and not parasites such as Cryptocaryon. Secondly, unless all of your fish are treated the lionfish will be reinfested once added back to the main display. Hyposalinity for at least 3 weeks is your best option, which means reducing the salinity by 5ppt-10ppt/day until salinity is under 16ppt.

You listed Cycle and Amquel as an additive, but hopefully that was upon initial startup and you are no longer using these? Lionfish are gluttons and it can punish them; A 2 or 3 day feeding period/week is best and offering a variety of food such as silversides, squid heads, and/or other non-fatty marine fish. Since volitans attain large size, I wouldn't hesitate performing a 50% water change while keeping your bi-weekly cycle. I will warn you now, this animal will eventually outgrow your tank and possibly consume your tankmates by then as well.

ccCapt · 05-16-2008, 11:16 PM

Welcome to AA..and sorry to hear about your problems. In addition to what everyone else mentioned, you really do need to get all the fish out of your main tank and into a qt. But...the biggest problem is you have 9 fish and a 15g qt. What are you using for filtration on the qt? Anyway you can pick up another qt tank...but then that leads to having an uncycled tank as a qt. Maybe you can figure out a way to use your current filter in something like a 30g brute storage bin. That 15g is just too small for the lion and those other fish.

It's good that you have a qt setup, but if you properly qt'ed every fish before you put it in the main tank, this type of problem wouldn't happen.

Kurt_Nelson · 05-17-2008, 12:11 AM

Nothing really different to add, just reiterating...

1. All fish in QT, and treat with hyposalinity per this article:

ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site - Reference - Hyposalinity Treatment

You'll need a refractometer for hypo - don't rely on a swing arm hydrometer if that's what you're using.

2. While doing hypo in the QT leave the main tank fishless for at least 6 weeks to break the life cycle of the ich and kill it off from your main tank.

Yes, it's a pain because you're going to have get a bigger QT. But if you don't do it right, you'll be fighting it forever. A bunch of the herbal "quick cures" I'm sure you'll investigate, or have LFSs recommend just play off the life cycle of ich to make you think it's working. If you do absolutely nothing, it will appear to "go away" on its own. It will be back though. Read those articles already linked and understand the life cycle of the buggers so you can know what you're dealing with.

ryshark · 05-17-2008, 01:52 AM

I have personally tried the "herbal cure" It did not work! I tried it twice since I thought it worked the first time, but then later realized it was just the natural cycle of ich taking place. I saved my tang by getting it into a QT and did hypo treatment and kept the main fallow for over 8-weeks and this did work. I also had too many fish for my QT at the time, so I returned a few of the uninfected fish back to LFS for credit.

05-16-2008, 04:51 PM	#2
roka64 Aquarium Advice Addict Community Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11,027 Images: 12	Welcome to the site! Sorry for your loss! If you have ich, you will need to remove all your fish from the main tank and let it run fallow for 6 weeks. Have you ever done hyposalinity treatment? You also have a small amount of nitrItes in your tank, so you may want to do another PWC to get rid of them. You may also want to soak your frozen in garlic guard for 20-30 minutes to help boost their immune systems (and it might get the lion eating again). __________________ Age is relative, you are only as old as you act....of course, this works in reverse.... Questions loved, heeded advice greatly appreciated! Vote for AA Good reading about: Nitrogen Cycle Fishless Cycling Need more help? Articles Acronym List --Scott Last edited by roka64; 05-16-2008 at 06:04 PM. Reason: added comment

05-16-2008, 05:41 PM	#4
roka64 Aquarium Advice Addict Community Moderator Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 11,027 Images: 12	I wouldn't attempt to treat your whole tank, especially if you have a QT. That could kill off your beneficial bacteria. Also, I don't know if it would be wise to put move the anens in a QT unless it has been established for about 9 months (water chemistry is not as stable in newer tanks). How big is your QT? __________________ Age is relative, you are only as old as you act....of course, this works in reverse.... Questions loved, heeded advice greatly appreciated! Vote for AA Good reading about: Nitrogen Cycle Fishless Cycling Need more help? Articles Acronym List --Scott

05-16-2008, 05:52 PM	#5
melosu58 SW 10 yrs and over Community Moderator Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Richmond Va Posts: 12,727 Images: 80	I agree dont treat your main tank. Treat the Lion in the QT. Try Hyposalinity. Read these. Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com __________________ View My Tanks http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i1...8/melosu58.jpg Click here to Visit FantasyReef

05-16-2008, 11:16 PM	#8
ccCapt SW 10 & Over Community Mentor Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Northeast PA Posts: 1,693 Images: 3	Welcome to AA..and sorry to hear about your problems. In addition to what everyone else mentioned, you really do need to get all the fish out of your main tank and into a qt. But...the biggest problem is you have 9 fish and a 15g qt. What are you using for filtration on the qt? Anyway you can pick up another qt tank...but then that leads to having an uncycled tank as a qt. Maybe you can figure out a way to use your current filter in something like a 30g brute storage bin. That 15g is just too small for the lion and those other fish. It's good that you have a qt setup, but if you properly qt'ed every fish before you put it in the main tank, this type of problem wouldn't happen. __________________ 125g reef See My Tank Info Check out The build project /Larry

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05-16-2008, 05:07 PM	#3
heatherfish Aquarium Advice Newbie Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 3	I haven't. We are going to do anyohte PWC tomorrow, and then again on Wednesday, to try and get everything up to par and remove and parisites that might be left in the tank. We have the live anemones, live rock, and coral along with the "live sand" at the bottom so I am hesitant to do any whole tank treatments. Let me ask you, do you think it would be more benificial to put the anemones, live rock, and coral in the QT to live for a while and treat all the fish in the main tank at once, and then place them back after a complete water cycle? The cardinals have shown signs of ick, but not today and the damsils and clowns are thriving. I really don't want to lose any fish or plants.......

05-16-2008, 05:54 PM	#6
heatherfish Aquarium Advice Newbie Join Date: May 2008 Location: San Diego Posts: 3	Its 15 gallons.

05-16-2008, 10:27 PM	#7
Innovator Aquarium Advice Addict Join Date: Nov 2006 Posts: 1,395	Well first off, Nitrofuracine Green is for treating bacterial infections and not parasites such as Cryptocaryon. Secondly, unless all of your fish are treated the lionfish will be reinfested once added back to the main display. Hyposalinity for at least 3 weeks is your best option, which means reducing the salinity by 5ppt-10ppt/day until salinity is under 16ppt. You listed Cycle and Amquel as an additive, but hopefully that was upon initial startup and you are no longer using these? Lionfish are gluttons and it can punish them; A 2 or 3 day feeding period/week is best and offering a variety of food such as silversides, squid heads, and/or other non-fatty marine fish. Since volitans attain large size, I wouldn't hesitate performing a 50% water change while keeping your bi-weekly cycle. I will warn you now, this animal will eventually outgrow your tank and possibly consume your tankmates by then as well.

05-17-2008, 12:11 AM	#9
Kurt_Nelson Aquarium Advice Addict Community Mentor Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: WA Posts: 2,436 Images: 28	Nothing really different to add, just reiterating... 1. All fish in QT, and treat with hyposalinity per this article: ATJ's Marine Aquarium Site - Reference - Hyposalinity Treatment You'll need a refractometer for hypo - don't rely on a swing arm hydrometer if that's what you're using. 2. While doing hypo in the QT leave the main tank fishless for at least 6 weeks to break the life cycle of the ich and kill it off from your main tank. Yes, it's a pain because you're going to have get a bigger QT. But if you don't do it right, you'll be fighting it forever. A bunch of the herbal "quick cures" I'm sure you'll investigate, or have LFSs recommend just play off the life cycle of ich to make you think it's working. If you do absolutely nothing, it will appear to "go away" on its own. It will be back though. Read those articles already linked and understand the life cycle of the buggers so you can know what you're dealing with.

05-17-2008, 01:52 AM	#10
ryshark Aquarium Advice FINatic Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Southern California Posts: 512	I have personally tried the "herbal cure" It did not work! I tried it twice since I thought it worked the first time, but then later realized it was just the natural cycle of ich taking place. I saved my tang by getting it into a QT and did hypo treatment and kept the main fallow for over 8-weeks and this did work. I also had too many fish for my QT at the time, so I returned a few of the uninfected fish back to LFS for credit.