Major fish loss, help a newbie

[dmreichman]

First time SW.
I set up my RedSea Max 34 gallon marine aquarium on 5/19/08. Went through the cycle. I added my cleaning crew after week 3, and a few more crabs week 4. Week 5 added a Blenny. Everything still going great.

The following week I added three inexpensive Damsels (Yellowtail Blue, Striped and Chromis) and they did fine. The Striped seemed to have gotten Ich early on, in which I treated with ParaGuard) Seemed to do the trick. I thought that everything was still doing well as the Ich cleared up.

About two weeks later I added a Coral Beauty and it had Ich also.

After doing quite a lot of reading in your this Forum, I've discovered that I made many mistakes, although my water specs seemed to have always been pretty good.

Temp: 78f / Salinity: 1.022 / ph: 8.2 / Ammonia: 0 / Nitrite 0.05 / Nitrate 2.5. Still not sure how to read the Alk card that came with the kit although it seems to be "normal". Protien skimmer is working very well.

I learned a valuable lesson with water changes, I didn't know to mix it 24 hours before and I may have been responsible for killing more fish after the Ich. Lesson learned!!

I lost the Blenny today and I am down to only the Chromis and my cleaning crew (crabs and shrimp).

How can I salvage my aquarium? Would the Hyposalinity procedure take care of the suspected parasite problem? and will it kill everything else in my tank?

 

[Ziggy953]

If you had any NitrIte present in the tank that is probably the cause of the deaths. NitrIte and Ammonia are deadly to fish.

I think you added fish before you were completely through your cycle. Also the amount of fish you had in the tank could have played a role in your issues. Too many fish too quickly could have increased your ammonia levels. Your tank being new the bacteria colony didn't have time to catch up to the demands.

I would get the fish and inverts out of the tank and let it finish the cycle.

How much live rock do you have in the tank? How much sand? What did you do to cycle the tank?

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

Regarding the ich, it sounds like you've done some reading up on it and realize that your original "cure" didn't cure it - you just witnessed the normal life cycle of ich... it comes and goes.

If hypo is done in your main tank, you'll lose any inverts (crabs/snails). Normal recommendation is to move the fish to a quarantine tank, do hypo over the course of 6-8 weeks, and while you're doing that let your main tank go fishless for the same time period. That will break the ich cycle and kill most if not all of them. After all that's over, you can put the fish back into the tank. Leave the crabs and snails in the main tank - they're OK.

 

[Innovator]

NO2 has virtually no effect on fish and there is always trace amounts of NO2 if using higher end testing equipment. My first advice is to set up a quarantine tank and quarantine all incoming purchases for at least a month. Secondly, I take it you treated Paraguard within the main system? If you are treating for a parasite, regardless of the medication, you do it in a separate container. As long as the water is thoroughly mixed it can be used in a couple hours for emergency situations, but aging 24hrs is best. Hyposalinity should be performed in a quarantine tank. Here is a starter article for you: An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

 

[roka64]

I agree with the above and can't add a thing.

 

[melosu58]

Liveaquaria says "Nitrite is also toxic to fish, and must be converted to nitrate by bacteria". If it was me I would QT your fish and treat them for ick with hypo. The main will need to stay fishless for about 8 weeks.

http://www.liveaquaria.com/PIC/article.cfm?aid=62

 

[dmreichman]

I couldn't remember the exact total weight of the live rock, I hope the attached photo helps. My wife informed me that it was 5 weeks before the first fish went into the tank. The cleaning crew went before. The only thing I had to go on was the instructions from RedSea. Add water/gravel (they were very specific with the water/salt mix). I added the live rock went in the following day. I could be very wrong now, but at the time I thought that we were very conservative before adding fish. Thank you for your reply.

If you had any NitrIte present in the tank that is probably the cause of the deaths. NitrIte and Ammonia are deadly to fish.

I think you added fish before you were completely through your cycle. Also the amount of fish you had in the tank could have played a role in your issues. Too many fish too quickly could have increased your ammonia levels. Your tank being new the bacteria colony didn't have time to catch up to the demands.

I would get the fish and inverts out of the tank and let it finish the cycle.

How much live rock do you have in the tank? How much sand? What did you do to cycle the tank?

 

[melosu58]

BTW welcome to AA

 

[dmreichman]

TY! This is such a great forum, I only wish that I found it before my fish deaths. I'm on way to the store to get supplies for a Q tank.

 

[melosu58]

Just make sure you read that thread posted earlier about a QT. Great article. Read this on ick.


Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part I by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

Marine Ich/Cryptocaryon irritans - A Discussion of this Parasite and the Treatment Options Available, Part II by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

 

[Ziggy953]

NO2 has virtually no effect on fish and there is always trace amounts of NO2 if using higher end testing equipment. My first advice is to set up a quarantine tank and quarantine all incoming purchases for at least a month. Secondly, I take it you treated Paraguard within the main system? If you are treating for a parasite, regardless of the medication, you do it in a separate container. As long as the water is thoroughly mixed it can be used in a couple hours for emergency situations, but aging 24hrs is best. Hyposalinity should be performed in a quarantine tank. Here is a starter article for you: An Ounce of Prevention is Worth a Pound of Cure: A Quarantine Tank for Everything by Steven Pro - Reefkeeping.com

I did a few quick searches on Google and came back with tons of hits about NitrIte being toxic to fish even at levels of 0.5. Granted nitrIte is not as deadly as ammonia but it is toxic and usually indicates an incomplete cycle.

I agree with your suggestion of QT. Allowing the tank to go fishless will most likely get rid of the ich issue but the fact that the tank isn't fully cycled is a larger problem and probably the cause of the ich in the first place. Stress and all....

When ammonia and/or nitrite levels in an aquarium become too high, such as during the period when biological filtration is being established, fish become sick and frequently die. Ammonia toxicity and nitrite toxicity are the result of complex interactions between these chemicals, other water quality parameters and the fish.

Ammonia toxicity and nitrite toxicity are two of the leading causes of fish death in aquarium systems. At higher levels, effects are immediate and numerous deaths can occur rapidly. However, lower levels, over a long period of time, can still result in increased incidence of disease and more chronic losses. Other water quality parameters – including pH (a measure of the amount of acid in water), temperature and dissolved oxygen – determine the degree of toxicity.

 

[Ziggy953]

As for your LR increasing the amount you have would benefit your tank. General rule is 1.5-2lbs per gallon of water for good biological filtration. Having a sump with more LR helps as well. I know with limited space it is difficult to add things like a sump.

 

[Innovator]

Ziggy: The levels of NO2 you are posting refers to fw fish and depending on the species can range, in regards to NO2 poisoning, from .10-200mg/l and depending on prolonged exposure. In general, for fw fish, values should read below .10mg/l through basic test kits. Sw on the other hand, 90mg/l+ would be required and once again depending on species and exposure timeframes. Most aquariums are going to have sufficient bacteria to convert NO2; however, it would take quite a bit to impact greatly. At .05 this simply is not the case.

Melosu: See above regarding NO2. Either the quote you gave was for fw or implied for such or just plain incorrect.

Here is a basic article on it: Nitrite and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com

You can also check Noga and Untergasser as they also reference past works stating the same.

 

[melosu58]

Just some more reading on nitrites

The natural reef
http://www.athiel.com/lib5/natreef.htm
It says " Nitrites are as toxic as ammonia themselves."

 

[Kurt_Nelson]

...

Here is a basic article on it: Nitrite and the Reef Aquarium by Randy Holmes-Farley - Reefkeeping.com...

Great article Innovator. Thanks for the link!

 

[Ziggy953]

Well as I said...the more reading I do the more references I find to NitrIte being toxic to both FW and SW fish. My point was simply that it was an indicator of other issues such as an incomplete cycle. Even the article you referenced and linked says that NitrIte is toxic to marine fish. Regardless of the levels prolonged exposure to NitrIte can and will cause issues.

Back to the topic at hand.

I think the best suggestions have been to remove your fish from the display QT them and treat them for ich allow your tank to go fishless while treating for ich (QT system) so the ich can run it's life cycle and hopefully die out. I would also increase the amount of LR you have in your system.