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Old 01-17-2006, 06:54 PM   #1
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My 2 Banners died in the QT - what could be the cause?

So after my ich outbreak, I leanred my lesson and committed to QTing all new arrivals.

MY QT had housed my YT and Clowns for 2 months during the hyp treatment. All are back in the main doing great.

So before I added the new Banners, I made sure the QT was at 1.025, right temp., no ammonia or nirtrites. The nitrates were high, so I did a 5 gallond PWC the day after I added the Banners.

The one problem I encountered was one of the Banners got stuck against the inside of the shipment bag while I was trying to pour him into the drip bucket. Once I got him dislodged after maybe 20 seconds, I dripped the pair for 2 hours before placment into the QT.

The next day, one of the Banners was dead on the tank bottom. I took him out and started watching the other closely. He was acting lethargic and just hovering around a small area of the tank. A day later the heater sonehow got unplugged and the temp dropped from 79 to 74. I plugged it back in and the temp went back to 79. A day or 2 later he too was dead.

What could have happened to my QT from the time I pulled out the hypo'ed fish to the time I added the Banners? I was adding ammoniam chloride every couple days to keep the bio filter going while the tank was void of fish.

Could it have been a series of things? The stuck fish in the bag? The other Banner dyeing from the loss of his partner? The temp drop from the unplugged heater?

Any ideas would be appreciated.

Spin
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120 g FOWLR, Pro Clear 200 19 gal. sump (bio balls removed), 50# Walt Smith FiJi LR, 150# reefersrock base, 300# DSB, Iwaki MD 20 return, (2) Rio 600s, (2) Hagen 802s, Amiracle Quad II skimmer, (2) Coralife 4 X 65s, 2 Lebo moonlights, (2) 120 mm vent. fans,

(2) Perc. Clowns, (1) Yellow Tang, (1) cleaner shrimp, (2) Henis, pending: Foxace Lo, Flame Angel, blue legs, scarlets, 4 emerald crabs, nassarius snails, 50 mexican turbos, (1) good bankruptcy attorney when this hobby blows out of control!
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Old 01-18-2006, 12:03 PM   #2
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How high did the NO3 actually read?

A series of events would be reasononable speculation. Mostly due to stress but possibley acclimation technique as well. When using a QT (which is great BTW), test the parameters of the shipping water, especially salinity. The allows you to manipulate the conditions of the QT to match and greatly cuts down on acclimation time and stress. The more common problem being salinity shock. Resellers will commonly keep salinities at a much lower level, when acclimating to a higher level, the fish cannot tolerate such a jump in such a short time. Often going from 25 to 35 ppt in a few short hours (if that long?). A change like this should be done over several days. There is also the issue of ammonia poisoning if transported from a long distance. If the fish must remain in the original water for any time after arriving, give it a shot of a good dechlor/ammonia binder for the short term. Once the QT water parameters have been matched, the acclimation time can be cut down quite dramatically (15-30 min) for additional chemistry.

Aslo try to eliminate stress as much as possible. No overhead light, low ambient room light, lower the salinity even further ( upto 14 ppt) so the fish can easily regain osmotic balance and possible add some B12.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 01-18-2006, 12:23 PM   #3
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Steve,

I think the nitrates were around 40 but I really can't read those darn test charts that well anyway.

So you're saying before dripping the fish, test the bag water. if it's say 1.016, I should quickly dilute the QT water down from say, 1.025 to 1.016? Then the drip cna be shortened to 15-30 mins? Would the drip still be 2-3 drops per second, or faster?

FWIW, these fish are flown from Walt Smith's California facility to Philly airport where my fish guy picks them up and brings them direclty to me. It can't be a nice trip for the fish.

BTW, the ironic thing is the 1st set of Banners I had went strainght into the main after a 2 hour drip. No QT at all. They thrived up until the ich hit. Now the 2nd set of Banners wind up dieing in the "safe harbor" of the QT! Go figure.

Thx

Spin
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120 g FOWLR, Pro Clear 200 19 gal. sump (bio balls removed), 50# Walt Smith FiJi LR, 150# reefersrock base, 300# DSB, Iwaki MD 20 return, (2) Rio 600s, (2) Hagen 802s, Amiracle Quad II skimmer, (2) Coralife 4 X 65s, 2 Lebo moonlights, (2) 120 mm vent. fans,

(2) Perc. Clowns, (1) Yellow Tang, (1) cleaner shrimp, (2) Henis, pending: Foxace Lo, Flame Angel, blue legs, scarlets, 4 emerald crabs, nassarius snails, 50 mexican turbos, (1) good bankruptcy attorney when this hobby blows out of control!
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Old 01-18-2006, 11:03 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinman
I think the nitrates were around 40 but I really can't read those darn test charts that well anyway.
Try to keep that below 20 ppm or lower if possible. The level unto itself will not likely kill but it does open the door to opportunistic pathogens.

Quote:
So you're saying before dripping the fish, test the bag water. if it's say 1.016, I should quickly dilute the QT water down from say, 1.025 to 1.016?
Exactly. Just be sure the FW used for dilution is properly buffered so you do not kill the pH depending on the actual drop.

Quote:
Then the drip cna be shortened to 15-30 mins? Would the drip still be 2-3 drops per second, or faster?
You don't need to drip, a slow steady stream or add ¬ľ cup every 5 min. A 30 min acclimation would probabley be better unless ammonia poisoning was suspected.


Quote:
BTW, the ironic thing is the 1st set of Banners I had went strainght into the main after a 2 hour drip. No QT at all. They thrived up until the ich hit. Now the 2nd set of Banners wind up dieing in the "safe harbor" of the QT! Go figure.
Very unfortunate but you did make the right choice to QT. Better acclimation techniques will hopefully avoid this in future.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 01-29-2006, 07:54 PM   #5
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Well, just got 2 replacement Banners on Tuesday and am hppy to report they seem to be doing much better than the other two who died <.

I feel somewhat relieved that it doesn't appear it was my environment that killed them.

I did check the salinity of the new arrivals' bag and it was around 1.022, so i didn't adjust the QT water. The ammonia in the bag water was quite high which is to be expected, so i didn't drip them for longer than 45 mins. as to minimize their exposure to the ammonia.

A couple more weeks in the QT and hopefully into the main they'll go.

Spin
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120 g FOWLR, Pro Clear 200 19 gal. sump (bio balls removed), 50# Walt Smith FiJi LR, 150# reefersrock base, 300# DSB, Iwaki MD 20 return, (2) Rio 600s, (2) Hagen 802s, Amiracle Quad II skimmer, (2) Coralife 4 X 65s, 2 Lebo moonlights, (2) 120 mm vent. fans,

(2) Perc. Clowns, (1) Yellow Tang, (1) cleaner shrimp, (2) Henis, pending: Foxace Lo, Flame Angel, blue legs, scarlets, 4 emerald crabs, nassarius snails, 50 mexican turbos, (1) good bankruptcy attorney when this hobby blows out of control!
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