paranoid? or damaged damsel?

[pspiegel]

I just finished cycling my tank and picked up a pair of damsels from my LFS, one a blue and one a yellow tailed.. when i was at the lfs the person helping me couldn't get to the yellow tailed one (last one in the tank) as it had swam into a little rock, she held the rock above the water and shook it out into the little bin.. the whole thing took about 5 minutes where the fish was out of water..

flash forward to when i brought the pair home, the blue damsel is now swimming around happy as can be, while the yellow tailed one that got forced out of it's rock is now kind of hovering in the upper corner of the tank near the filter intake. am i paranoid or should I be worried? i mean i understand the fish has had a pretty traumatizing day.. but I just figured i would ask

attached is a picture of the 14 gallon nano-cube.. that way you can see kind of what i am talking about.. well actually i am also curious if anyone had any suggestions on how to arrange everything/if i need more live rock/sand...

thanks for the help in advance!!


EDIT: I am wondering if this could be due to the yellow tailed damsel being less aggressive than the blue damsel. I have been watching them a bit and noticed that whenever the yellow tailed damsel tries to come out of the corner the blue one kind of swims right up to it.. I am not exactly sure though if this is related or if maybe the yellow tailed will get a little more aggressive as time goes on. is there anything to do if a damsel overpowers the other?

 

[austinsdad]

is there anything to do if a damsel overpowers the other?

IMO, either watch one get sick and maybe die or return one. Either way, that blue (blue devil maybe? - no rellly, that may be his real name - I didn't make it up 8) ) is likely going to be a problem with any new fish added after him. I got a feeling you want another fish or two. Damsels can be very agressive fish, especially if they're in the tank first and think newcomers need to know who is the boss - frequently. The blue devil, if that's him is one of the meanest I've heard. Whatr's your plans on total inhabitants, fish wise, You may have to go back to the drawing board on this.

On the rock, I'd try taking the smaller piece and placing it on the bottom of the sand, then take the larger piece and lean it off the left side of the smaller rock. In other words let each rock stay in the same place, just switch them up and down. Clear as mud?? Looking for a swimway with space between the two rocks for hiding or swimming thru.

Good luck.

 

[afilter]

Hopefully the fish is fine.

Either way neither of the damsels is an ideal fish for your setup as they probably should be in a 30g or larger. Damsels are inexpensive, but not very good starter fish as they can be very territorial and aggressive and may not allow any other additions especially in a 14g tank. You really should look at fish more suitable for a nano system.


Check out this link for more appropriate fish:

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/scateg.cfm?pCatId=2124

BTW, you may want to rethink what LFS you are using. If they catch their fish that way it would concern me as to how they are caring for the fish in general.

HTH,

 

[melosu58]

I agree with the others as damsels are agressive and territorial and will fight with each other esp. in that size tank. Afilter gave you a pretty good list there of fish for your tank.

 

[roka64]

I agree as well. I have a blue devil and he is a devil! Have you seen him turn black yet, it's pretty neat. I would definitely try to take him back. As stated before, he will probably go after anything new you put in that tank.
As for LR, I like to have a cave or swim arounds, see if your LFS has any with holes through it.

 

[pspiegel]

thanks for all the great replies! i think it is a matter of an over-aggressive blue devil.. the yellow tailed damsel seems to want to explore and goes to the other side of the tank when the blue devil is behind a rock, but when it comes back, it goes right back to its corner or under a rock.. would you recommend I get rid of both of them or just the blue devil?

i am worried that the damsels might cause some issues when I get more fish (i was thinking some clownfish might be a good start next as I eventually want to put an anemone in there, i don't remember if you have to put the anemone in at the same time as the clownfish though if you want them to get along? or i was thinking to add a gobys). Also, with the clownfish are the Ocellaris the only ones that are nano-reef safe or would a Percula work as well?

As you can tell it has been a couple of years since I have done this, i use to have two 40 gallon tanks about 6 years ago.. it is slowly coming back to me though!

 

[roka64]

I had a maroon in with 5 damsels, none of them fought, but the maroon is a little tough guy. My two yellow tails seem to be the least agressive. They hang out on the left side, the 2 three stripes have set up shop in the middle and the blue devil rules the right side, all by himself.
Afilter hit it, they both will outgrow that tank. They need a min of a 30G. I imagine even the yellow tail will be aggressive to any new comers.

 

[afilter]

would you recommend I get rid of both of them or just the blue devil?

i am worried that the damsels might cause some issues when I get more fish (i was thinking some clownfish might be a good start next as I eventually want to put an anemone in there, i don't remember if you have to put the anemone in at the same time as the clownfish though if you want them to get along? or i was thinking to add a gobys).

Definately return both damsels if possible. As for clowns certain ones may be OK, just check the link I gave you earlier.

As for an Anenome no you do not need to add them at the same time and I would wait at least 6 months if not a year for your tank to truly get established before adding one.

As for fish keep in mind that 3-4 small nano type fish is all you are really going to be able to have plus assorted inverts.

I encourage you to take a step back and plan what you want to do before you make the leap. Keep in mind that it does matter which fish you add first as you will want to go from least aggressive/territorial to most.

I had a maroon in with 5 damsels, none of them fought, but the maroon is a little tough guy. My two yellow tails seem to be the least agressive. They hang out on the left side, the 2 three stripes have set up shop in the middle and the blue devil rules the right side, all by himself.

The big difference here is roka64 has a 55g setup. None of these fish including the Maroon clown(can get 6"+) would be appropriate for a 14g setup.

HTH,

 

[roka64]

The big difference here is roka64 has a 55g setup. None of these fish including the Maroon clown(can get 6"+) would be appropriate for a 14g setup.

Yeah, I definitely agree, thanks for pointing that out, afilter. Going to be 125G soon...

 

[pspiegel]

I agree as well. I have a blue devil and he is a devil! Have you seen him turn black yet, it's pretty neat. I would definitely try to take him back. As stated before, he will probably go after anything new you put in that tank.
As for LR, I like to have a cave or swim arounds, see if your LFS has any with holes through it.

i haven't seen him turn black.. when does that happen?


everyone else thanks for the advice, I need to plan a bit better I think.. Does anyone know of a good book for nano-reef set up/stocking? I keep thinking of my old 40 gallon tanks so I never really had to think TOO much of the stocking since everyone seemed to have enough space..

are there any other good websites with nano-reef stocking guides like the one a couple of posts back?

 

[Sparkie]

I agree as well. I have a blue devil and he is a devil! Have you seen him turn black yet, it's pretty neat.

When do they turn black????? My Blue Devil isn't aggressive. My Yellow Tail and One Spot are more aggressive. Also, as of now, and I am sure it will change, all of my fish get along great (I am sure it is beginners luck though)

 

[roka64]

Mine turns really dark blue almost black when he gets mad. My 3 stripes' white forehead will change to black also, and they like to dip. I think they are really cool, the edges of their fins have a tiny line of blue.

My Blue Devil isn't aggressive.

They will get along, mine doesn't go after the others that much, and it is mostly chasing them around. I rarely see any nipped fins. But as they get older, they can get territorial.

 

[pspiegel]

so I was looking through that list of the nano-reef safe fish and was wondering if there is a reason that they are mostly carnivores? and will the carnivores eat flake food?

i am hoping to get something that is a little more reliant on flake food since it is a lot easier to manage in a college setting (where I am)..

any ideas? or are there any other nano-reef lists out there?



ALSO (since it won't let me post this in a separate reply..):

On the rock, I'd try taking the smaller piece and placing it on the bottom of the sand, then take the larger piece and lean it off the left side of the smaller rock. In other words let each rock stay in the same place, just switch them up and down. Clear as mud?? Looking for a swimway with space between the two rocks for hiding or swimming thru.

Is this kind of the idea you were thinking? I just did it 5 min ago so it is pretty cloudy still, but it looks pretty cool. I was thinking maybe of getting another piece of rock to put on the right hand side at an angle making a bigger passthrough/cave like area.. but I am not sure if that would look good or not... It also wonder if it might make too dark of an area underneath?

 

[austinsdad]

Yeah, that's kinda what I had in mind. Another piece like you suggest might work too, but you may have to lean them on the back wall wo ensure some stability. Speaking of stability, take 2 fingers and try to topple the rock with 3x the amount of force you think a fish, hermit, or snail might be able to generate. OK... just imagine. It'll come to you I bet. You'll get a good fit as you adjust and it'll feel snug before you get OK with it.

Also, if you ever think about burrowing critters (certain fish or pistol shrimp) you'll want the rock firmly seated on the bottom glass.

Lemme seee a pic of the whole tank. I'd like to see what room you've got on the left and right of the rocks. But I think we're getting somewhere now. More character in the last pic.

 

[roka64]

i am hoping to get something that is a little more reliant on flake food since it is a lot easier to manage in a college setting

You will want to feed them a variety. I feed mysis/brine and then alternate with flakes.

 

[pspiegel]

Yeah, that's kinda what I had in mind. Another piece like you suggest might work too, but you may have to lean them on the back wall wo ensure some stability. Speaking of stability, take 2 fingers and try to topple the rock with 3x the amount of force you think a fish, hermit, or snail might be able to generate. OK... just imagine. It'll come to you I bet. You'll get a good fit as you adjust and it'll feel snug before you get OK with it.

Also, if you ever think about burrowing critters (certain fish or pistol shrimp) you'll want the rock firmly seated on the bottom glass.

Lemme seee a pic of the whole tank. I'd like to see what room you've got on the left and right of the rocks. But I think we're getting somewhere now. More character in the last pic.

it is pretty stable, doesnt move at all when i touch push it like you said to, i will post a pic tomorrow or the next day. I actually thought about retaking it because i realized once I posted it that it looked like it went all the way up to the wall.. there is about an inch and a half of sand on the left side and about two and a half on the right side so it seems like it is pretty good spacing right?

 

[austinsdad]

pretty good spacing right?

Most will say as long as you can get a Mag Float on the side glass, you're ok. You're gonna have to get a glass scraper or Float and try to clean the side glass. Do a test run.

Then again, maybe some don't clean the sides, just the front. I like my sides clean too.

 

[roka64]

Then again, maybe some don't clean the sides, just the front. I like my sides clean too.

Me too!