Please help!!! Disease? What's going on....

[scsc2323]

I am very new to saltwater tanks. I set mine up and bought an angel and a dog face puffer. Due to being ill informed, my tank started to cycle, and I had to bring my fish to a local pet store. So I cycled my tank over the next 4 or 5 weeks with live rock, live sand, and crushed coral. All my levels were perfect, and I had my water checked professionally numerous times. It was now time to bring my fish home. After about 3 days, my angel was lying on the bottom of the tank, breathing slowly, and occasionally having some sort of spasm. It eventually just stopped breathing and died. And it died pretty quickly. I checked the levels again, and all of them were fine. The puffer appeared ok just fine and was eating well. 3 weeks later, my puffer starting looking very stressed, becoming ALL black and hanging out at the top of the tank. I have been doing water changes and checking my levels religiously. 2 nights ago, my puffer did the same thing the angel did, and died as well. Does anyone know why this could have happened? Any help would be appreciated, as I would love to have fish in the tank I have spent so much time on. Thanks!

(I think my puffer developed ich in his last stages, but from what I've read, I think something else killed him)

 

[Innovator]

One thing people learn quickly in this hobby, patience is a virtue. There are numerous websites and magazines available for you to read and educate yourself. How large is this tank and please tell us how it is set up

 

[scsc2323]

It is a 46 gallon bow tank. I cycled the tank for over a month using uncured live rock, live sand, and crushed coral. Like I said, I was misinformed in the beginning, but immediately took the fish out in the beginning when I saw a problem with ammonia. In addition to the rock and sand and coral, I have two 30 gallon filters running (aqua clear I think, with carbon), and a protein skimmer. All my levels, even with the fish, have remained fine. With the fish dead, I checked the levels, and they still are fine. I use a liquid test kit. Nitrites are at 0ppm, Ammonia is at 0ppm, PH is 8.2, Nitrates are at 10ppm, the salinity is 1.021. I maintain a temp of 80 degrees.

 

[Innovator]

Here is a bit of reading material for you: http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-10/sp/feature/index.php

Did you acclimate the fish? Dogface puffers, Arothron nigropunctatus, grow large and need at least a 125g. What angel did you purchase?

 

[melosu58]

IMO the puffer died from ick brought on from stress of being in a too small tank. They need a 100 gallon + tank. Alot of times fish can stay free of the parasite if they are stress free. Too small a tank will cause stress. I believe both of your fish got ick in the tank they came from while your tank cycled. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news but thats why it is good to research all fish before you get them. Sorry

 

[scsc2323]

I bought the puffer from Petco, and they had him for over 2 months. He was in a tank a quarter size of mine, and when he died, he was not much larger than 4". Buy when I bought him, I was told my tank size was large enough. Again, misinformed. Since I had a new tank, I knew it was most likely disease free. I truly believe that while I was cycling, the fish did develop a sickness from the pet store I kept them at. And the tank they were in at the pet store while my tank cycled was not even 10 gallons. Either way, even though I was told from numerous so-called professionals that my puffer would not die from ich, he did die. So now that my fish are dead, and the tank is empty, where do I go from here? I have upped the temp to 85 degrees to get rid of the ich hosts, and have also lowered the salinity. What steps do I take from here to be able to bring in a new fish. By the way, yes, I did acclamate the fish before putting them in the tank.

Also, I don't know the name of the angel, but it was bi-colored....yellow and bluish purple. A half and half mix. I can post pics of my tank as it is now if need be.

 

[melosu58]

You`ll need to keep your main fishless for 8 weeks to break the life cycle of the parasite.

 

[scsc2323]

Ok, I can do that. I have been patient this long. But it's hard for me to believe that a larger puffer died from ich though. I understand he did have it at the end. But will running my DT for 8 weeks get rid of any other diseases that might harm a new healthy fish? And is it most definite that the ich killed the puffer, or a secondary bacterial infection? Or an infection that he had to begin with, that caused the stress, that led to ich, and then his death? Also, my live rock have many "creatures" in them, so is there an invertebrae safe treatment I can use to help this along a bit?

 

[melosu58]

No IMO just fishless for eight weeks. IMO ich is in the tank and needs the life cycle broken by going eight weeks without fish . Here are a few links on it.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php

 

[scsc2323]

Ok, I'll go 8 weeks without fish. Anything at all I should do in additon to that? I have checked numerous websites, even the ones you have listed. I'm dumbfounded as to why this has happened and can't get any other answer other than ich...which shouldn't have killed my puffer so quickly. I am treating the tank now with kick ich, which says is safe for invertebraes. Still, the eight weeks? You really believe nothing else infectied the fish to make them die so quickly?

 

[melosu58]

That is My opinion. And I dont think Kick ick works in the least. IMO. Good luck

 

[roka64]

It's hard to tell what killed them at this point. Did he have salt sized grains on him?
You said you did acclimate him. How long and what method?
Did he ever inflate while exposed to the air?

 

[scsc2323]

I did acclamate him as I was told by many people. There were no other fish in the tank. I put him in a sterile container with the water from the pet store and added a cup or so of my tank water. I waited about 15-20 minutes, and added more water. I repeated this process several times over at least an hour. I then caught him with a net and placed him in my tank. He never inflated at all the entire time I had him. The only time he inflated was when he was a minute away from dead. I have read that ich can lead to secondary bacterial infections that can be lethal. I noticed about a week ago dark areas on him suggesting stress. This was after having him in my tank for over 2 weeks with no problems. Then I noticed one white speck on his back. A couple days later there were scratches on him, I think from rubbing on the rock. He was hanging out at the top of the tank near the filter and the heater, turning completely black. There were more specs on him a couple days later, and was told by the fish store that it was ich. I started treatment, but by the next morning, the ich on his back was just slime, and he was at the bottom of the tank lifeless. He spasmed a few times and just stopped breathing.

 

[roka64]

Both stress and ich can lead to secondary infections.
What is your flow rate?

 

[scsc2323]

I'm sorry, I'm still new to this. Flow rate?

 

[roka64]

Total water movement in your tank, including the filters and power heads (phs).

 

[tecwzrd]

Puffers should never be netted. See this puffer care article.

Ich can kill but if it turned black it sounds like a Melanocarcinoma or a thyroid tumor and the slime could have been Brooklynella Hostilis. See www.fishyfarmacy.com for more info on Diagnosis and Treatment of fish diseases.

Also read Selecting Healthy & Appropriate Marine Fishes.

The use of a QT tank while not mandatory is highly recommended as well.

Drip acclimation is only needed in a QT for invertebrates preferably for 2+ hours. With fish, you need to get them out of the transport bag as quickly as possible. Test the transport water for temp, salinity, pH and so on. Then manipulate the QT parameters to match. Once done, the acclimation timeframe can be greatly reduced. Temp, pH and salinity being the main concerns. Bring the QT sg/ph/temp up to the main tank over the 6+ weeks kept in QT and increase the sg/ph slowly and every 3+ days to avoid stress.

See Help setting up a QT tank & Equipment for drip acclimation.

 

[scsc2323]

I hope this is the info you are looking for. I have two 30 gallon filters running in my 46 gallon tank. I also have a protein skimmer running as well.

 

[roka64]

The reason I was asking about flow is when fish tend to swim near the top, is the O2 levels might be too low. You don't have any phs running for more flow?
What brand/model are your filters?

 

[scsc2323]

The filters are aqua clear. I know they use sponges and carbon. And since I don't know what phs is, I probably don't have it. What is it, and will that help get my tank back on track?