Possible Fungus Outbreak

[macman7010]

My porcupine puffer fish has a case of some type of external problem. It looks almost like marine ick, although the dusting of white spots over him is much finer than ick and covers much more of his body than ick typically would. My assumption is that he has some type of fungus growing on him. His fins are simply covered in the white spots, although like I said before they are much finer than the white spots typically associated with ick.

I have quarantened him in my 10 gallon hospital tank and am treating him with both Mela Fix, and Pima Fix. I raised the tank tempature to 82 degrees in hopes of warding off any possible parasites. As of this morning, one day into treatment nothing had changed. Any suggestions on what this may be, or how to treat it?

 

[quarryshark]

From what you describe, it sounds like either ich or more likely velvet. Is he eating? Cloudy eyes? active? Raising the temp will not ward off the parasite, it just speeds up the life cycle.
The meds you are using will not help with a parasitic outbreak, you may as well stop them and run carbon to get them out.
can you post a pic of him? Would be helpful.
Puffers are sensative to copper based drugs, so if he has a parasite, the treatment of choice would be formalin. For ich I would say hypo, but this sound suspiciously like velvet. Awaiting further details.

 

[macman7010]

Kurt,

He is both eating and active. His eyes are totally clear and he is eating well. I will get some pics of him this afternoon and post them. Would Green X be a good choice of medication?

 

[quarryshark]

Those are good signs, yes the pic would help.
Have never used Green X, I see that is has malachite green in it. That stuff is potent. IMO if you could find a regular formalin drug that would be better. Check around at different LFS's, only one in my area had it when I needed it.
Lets see the pic and go from there.

 

[macman7010]

Kurt,

I have read a good bit about velvet. Do you think it is possible the puffer has a severe case of ich. The cists that cover his body do not contain a goldish color but are totally white, and I dont see them moving. His fins seem to be the worst affected area, though his whole body is covered.

 

[quarryshark]

I am suspicious that it may be. I went through a systemwide outbreak of it a while back and it was white color on my fish as well. You won't see any movement, the spots are where the parasite is irrititating the fish.
It may be ich but thats why I am suggesting the formalin instead of hypo for your puffer. Formalin would work on both ailments.
Thats why I would like to see a pic.

 

[steve-s]

The puffer would actually tolerate Cuprmine as well. It too will deal with both issues and not stress the fish as much as Formalin dips might. It is also much easier on the hobbiest in terms of application and can be mixed with antibiotics if needs must. Puffers are notorious for secondary infections and formalin should not be used in the presence of open wounds/sores. Just be sure you get the proper Seachem Multi test Copper kit to go with it. An ammonia alert badge would also be a +

Cheers
Steve

 

[macman7010]

I went ahead and raised the tank tempature to 84 to speed up the parasite's life cycle and added Green X, a lot of people hate it, a friend of mine that is a marine biologist recommends it so that is what I used.

This morning the cysts were down by quite a bit. All the body cysts were gone and only those on the fins and around the eyes remained. Hopefully these will leave soon, if not I am going to attempt Hyposalinity to remove the remaining parasite.

 

[steve-s]

, a friend of mine that is a marine biologist recommends it so that is what I used.

I truely mean no offense to your friend but you'd be suprised at what they don't know. GreenX is seriously nasty stuff and what's worse is it rarely gets rid of the parasite just eases the infestation some. Raising the temp was not a good idea either. With the increased temp you will speed up the life cycle but it will also change the pH of the fishs' blood reducing it's immune response making it even more seseptible to secondaty infection and further infestation. You where better off leaving the temp be.

This morning the cysts were down by quite a bit. All the body cysts were gone and only those on the fins and around the eyes remained. Hopefully these will leave soon, if not I am going to attempt Hyposalinity to remove the remaining parasite.

The lessening of visible spots is not really an indication the med is working so you must be patient and watch the puffer for signs of secondary infection as well as re-infestation. The life cycle of the parasite requires it to leave the fish and encyst while it multiplies. This often gives the hobbiest a fasle sense of security. If you switch to hypo, make sure you do several water changes and run carbon to remove the med, the two tratments combined would be deadly to most fish, especially one as a sensitive as a puffer. I would also be sure you have access to a broad spectrum antibiotic. Check out a few LFS to be sure it's accessible and make note of what they have. No need to buy any just yet though.

Cheers
Steve

 

[macman7010]

Hmmm.... yeah obviosuly he didnt think through his suggestion. Although I have used Green X in the past with good results. My plan for the puffer is this, let me know what you think.

Run carbon in filters to remove all traces of green X.
Begin the process of lowering salt content to 1.010
Allow several days for infection to subside
Do a 25-30% water change to remove any possibly remaining medication and readjust salinity to 1.021
Begin use of Mela Fix to repair any damaged tissue
Use Vitamin C Treatment to enhance immunity
Give puffer some time in quarentiine to totally heal

 

[quarryshark]

Do some water changes to help in removal of the Green X.
The spg would need to be left at the .009-.010 for a period of 4 weeks for the parasite to be eradicated. A good refractometer is needed for accurate measurement of spg. Hydrometers are not accurate enough to do the job.
Keep in mind, if it is marine velvet, this treatment will not be effective, it only works with ich.

 

[macman7010]

update...

went home and added carbon for about 1 hour to filter out any remaining green x. I then did a 30% water change with some water I keep cured in a 20 gallon acrylic tank, and lowered the salinity to 1.010.

things seem ok. I also set the temp back to 76 on the heater. I added some Cloat to the water in place of the green x.

Though now my lionfish has cloudy eyes and it would appear he cannot see. So I added Mela Fix and Pima Fix to his tank.


....seriously considering giving up saltwater in favor of my lifelong abuse of the freshwater side of things.....

 

[macman7010]

a client of mine is a long time saltwater fanatic and was formerly friends with the founder and creator of Aquarium Products. he was kind enough to stop over and observe my situation and is 99% sure it is a severe case of Ich or another saltwater parasite - Odo something or the other, he claims both can be treated much the same.

 

[quarryshark]

You can treat the Lion with the hypo as well. What is in the tank with him?
Do you have another qt tank?

 

[macman7010]

The lionfish is still in the main tank. I do have a quarentine tank, it is 20 gallons though it is occupied by my Porcupine Fish. That is the only quarentine tank I have - I am planning on setting up another quarentine saltwater tank as my other quarentine is my freshwater qurentine though I dont have any more money to drop into it right now after spending over 400 dollars on this new arrangment and various fish.

If you read my HELLLLLLP!! post it will tell you the whole story of the situation with my tank.

 

[quarryshark]

How big are the fish?
You really need to get them all out and into qt.
Can you swing another 20 gallon? depending on the fish size you may be able to keep them in 2 qt tanks.
It is a must at this point to keep the main tank fishless for 6 week, no matter what you decide. Let that parasite die off.

 

[macman7010]

Honestly, I am thinking about just returning the Lionfish since he is ok to return and the tang - treating the puffer and returning him once he is well. Letting the tank sit for the next month and a half and getting some damsels and clownfish.

I was planning on moving these guys into another set up - an 80 gallon tank I have although was not quite ready with all the details to pull it off.

 

[macman7010]

Oh I can swing another 20 gallon although I promised my fiance that I would cut back on the aquarium spending and she is going to go ballistic if I walk into our apartment with another tank!

 

[steve-s]

he was kind enough to stop over and observe my situation and is 99% sure it is a severe case of Ich or another saltwater parasite - Odo something or the other

I also think you should forgo the hypo treatment, the symptoms are moreso akin to Amyloodinium ocellatum (aka oodinium/velvet) and not C. irritans. If misdiagnosed, the hypo will have no affect on the velvet where the Cupramine will kill both. Velvet is also a very fast killer so time is not on your side.

Cheers
Steve

 

[MarkLehr]

I think this problem should be much simpler, given that the infected fish is a Porcupine Puffer. This fish tolerates freshwater baths better than any fish i have ever seen. You can easily dip 2 or 3 times per day for 1 minute at a time. The parasites, regardless of which type, will not tolerate the change in salinity and you should have a non-infected puffer within days. Combined with a hyposalinity treatement (1.015+) you will probably have a fully cured fish in 3 weeks.

For the record, feeding garlic has proven essential to boosting the immunity system of puffer fish. Avoid krill. You can reference

http://www.aquaticimportsintl.com/about/resources/?articleid=1

or any works by Kelly Jedlicki, who has become recognized as the foremost authority on pufferfish in the industry.