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Old 06-10-2004, 10:48 AM   #1
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raccoon butterfly with ich

My raccoon butterfly fish appears to be sowing the first signs of ich. i want to put it in a q-tank, but do not have a sponge filter ready to go. would the fluval feramic rings that i have in my hang on fuge be ok to use for the biofiltration needed for this. i was planning on using a 10g tank for this. also, what is the best med to treat with as i have never had an outbreak before. and after i do treat i should not put the media back in my tank because it could leach back into my main tank correct?

thanks in advance
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:04 AM   #2
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I am using cupramine in a 20g right now. Dont worry about the biofiltration, it will get destroyed when treating with cupramine. I was instructed by many that this was the best med for ich, or marine velvet. You just need some kind of filter with a sponge in it. Do not use any carbon, it will bring the cupramine down to a level that will not benifet your fish. Also you will need a test kit from seachem for copper. The other test kits do not recognize that type of copper. Remember cupramine will kill inverts. It will also kill your fish if dosed to high, but wont kill the ich if dosed to low. Your main tank needs to have all fish removed to qt. The main tank must stay fallow for at least 4 weeks, better 6 weeks for the ich to die off. The ich will naturally die out of the main tank without a fish host.

Lot of info I know, HTH!
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:39 AM   #3
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Your main tank needs to have all fish removed to qt.
Not necessarily, if there not sick don't treat them. Many fish resist ich, or simply won't get it just because it's in the tank. If the other fish look clean (no spots of ich) and aren't rubbing I would leave them be. Also anything treated with copper keep far away from the main. So yes keep the media in the QT. Also some natural cleaners may be of help to, I think a racoon would eat a cleaner shrimp, mabye a neon goby? Not sure if they would eat one of those too. Anyways best of luck getting the fish cured.
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Old 06-10-2004, 11:55 AM   #4
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[quote="Six-Line"] Not necessarily, if there not sick don't treat them. Many fish resist ich, or simply won't get it just because it's in the tank. If the other fish look clean (no spots of ich) and aren't rubbing I would leave them be. [quote]


The problem is if you remove 1 fish, cure him and put him back, he may catch it again if the parasite was never erradicated from the main. With fish (hosts) remaining in the main, the parasite can still survive even though these fish may be somewhat ich resistant.
I guess my point is if you are going to remove 1 fish, why not the rest and do it right with a fallow peroid. IMO
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:01 PM   #5
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I agree with qshark on this one.

In order for ich to live in your tank, it must have a fish host. If you remove only one fish, then yes, you will cure that fish. Meanwhile back in the main tank the ich lives on. Your other fish may not be prone to ich, but there prescence in the tank will help the ich survive. As soon as you put your ich prone fish back in the main, chances are it will get ich again. IMHO, it's best to go ahead a rid your tank of ich completely.
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:13 PM   #6
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I gotta say that I agree with them. They are right on the money. Its a pain to fallow a tank for 4-6 weeks, but in the long run, its worth it.
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:16 PM   #7
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It's not always possible though. Depending on how many fish he has they might not fit in some QT tanks. Multiple tanks might not be an option, but QTing them all would be the best bet. I personally would just get some cleaner shrimp, and wait the 4-6 weeks before re-adding the fish with visible signs.
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Old 06-10-2004, 12:40 PM   #8
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If you are not going to qt all the fish, then you dont need to wait 4-6weeks. I think the cupramine says that effective treatment is 14 days. I would put the fish back in the main about a week after the treatment is over (if the syptoms are long gone). I do not suggest this method. Even though I'm pretty new to this hobby, I feel like I am becoming very aquainted with ich. (if you know what I mean) 8O

Six-line you have a point about not being able to qt all of the fish. That is very true. But if you can, qt them ALL.
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Old 06-10-2004, 09:43 PM   #9
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thanks for the advice, so what i am understanding is fallow the tank if you can (i don't think i will be able to do this unfortunatley). so i will treat the butterfly fish with copper, and can i also use hyposalinity, and if so what salinity should this be? also for the sponge filter, since i do not have one ready to go how long does it take for a sponge filter to become colonized with bacteria? am i correct in that you do not recommend using the ceramic material from my hob fuge?

thanks again
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Old 06-10-2004, 10:06 PM   #10
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so what i am understanding is fallow the tank if you can (i don't think i will be able to do this unfortunatley).
If you do not treat all the fish and allow the tank to remain fallow for about 6 weeks, there is a very strong chance you will be caught in an endless battle which C. irritans. Once it's in the tank and there is a fish to feed it, the lifecycle will never be broken. There is no such thing as an immune fish. There is aquired immuntity but it rarely lasts long (6ish months) and is not indefinate.

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so i will treat the butterfly fish with copper, and can i also use hyposalinity
Hyposalinity and copper cannot be combined as one treatment. It is either one or the other and must be performed in a seperate QT.

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and if so what salinity should this be?
If you choose hyposalinity which IME is a much less stressful prospect for both you and the fish. There is a very good step by step article >>here<<


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also for the sponge filter, since i do not have one ready to go how long does it take for a sponge filter to become colonized with bacteria? am i correct in that you do not recommend using the ceramic material from my hob fuge?
There is no set time but generally speaking 7-10 days should give it a decent start. If you choose to treat with hypo the ceramic media can be transfered without a problem. If you choose the copper treatment you can only use inert materials, so no ceramics or any CaCO3 based items. Some forms of copper also destroy the biofilter in the process so unless using something like Seachem's Cupramine it would be a moot point.

Cheers
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