Sick clown

[Phyl]

I have a clownfish. She's 2w old (she was at the LFS for 2w before that). She didn't do qt. We thought the qt tank was ready, but it wasn't so we just put her in the main. The main has 0ammo; 0 nitrites; nitrates < 15.

The clownfish has a raised bumpy looking white patch on her chin. Of course all of the pictures that I could get of her were from her good side! But here's the best picture that I could get. You can kind of see the white patch on the back of her face. There are no white marks other than this patch on the entire perfect looking fish. Her jaw looks swollen.

She's eating ravenously, acting (clownfish) normal. She's in good spirits, eats out of my hands, happy fish.

What would you guess this is? What is the best method of treatment? What is the fastest way to get said treatment if my LFS doesn't carry it?

I first saw the spots on Sunday morning. She looked fine on Saturday.

If I can get her to pose better I'll update with another pic.

TIA,
Phyllis

 

[Phyl]

Sick Clown (Two more pictures)

I have two more pictures of my clown. The mark on her is kind of cotton-y looking with a little red behind it (infection?).

Let me know what you think!

Thanks

 

[steve-s]

Re: Sick Clown (Two more pictures)

The mark on her is kind of cotton-y looking with a little red behind it (infection?).

Bacterial (fungal) infection most likely. Before you decide on treating, I would try to see if the fish can do it on it's own. Keep a close eye on the red areas though, if they start getting worse/spreading then treat right away.

First step is a few large water changes with well aged/aerated SW. You need to keep DOC as low as possible and the nitrates down as well. The nutrient is feeding the bacteria only makes it worse. Next step is being sure the foods are well fortified with vitamins prior to feeding. Be sure the vitamin additives are high in [acronym="Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acid"]HUFA[/acronym] and vitamin C. If you can find it, Beta Glucan would be a +.

In many cases, these two steps (if maintained properly) are all that should be needed if the fish is otherwise healthy. Most "fungal" infections are actually bacterial in nature and the fish can often fight it off naturally when conditions are right. The other fish (if any) are not at risk. If the above does not help after a week or so, you may need to treat. If so the LFS should have what you need. Maracyn II at double the dose daily each day for 7 full days in a QT.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Phyl]

Steve,

First and foremost... THANK YOU!

Next... I've started trying to see if I can get beta glucan locally. So far what I've found is that a) my LFS doesn't know what it is nor what formulations would contain it and b) that I can get it in a local health food store. (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/sept2003/feature.htm). My LFS carrys Kent vitamin C. I think that's the only vitamin that they have (?).

Would you use the LHFS variety or look specifically for a marine version of it?

Thanks!

 

[Phyl]

I just found the ingredient list for Formula 1 and 2. Just got some of those yesterday and that has some beta glucan in it. There's also vitamin C in it. Is it ok to add a little boost of beta glucan from the LHFS to that? Or should I specifically find beta glucan in an OTS vitamin? There's a fish store an hour or so away from us that has a product called Cellcon (which has beta glucan in it) but they aren't open on Monday so we can't get there until tomorrow!

 

[steve-s]

The "boost" in the Ocean Nutrition might not be enough in terms of Beta Glucan, it's a pretty good product though. Try it and see but if you can get the Beta Glucan at the health food store easily enough I would go for that. The Formula food is more or less like taking daily vitamins than anything else. I would still suggest soaking some meaty foods (not brine preferabley) in Selcon or Zoecon for the fatty acids ([acronym="Highly Unsaturated Fatty Acid"]HUFA[/acronym]). It will also help speed things up and contains a bit more vitamin C.

Avoid vitamin products meant for humans. It can drastically affect pH, especially if not stabalized vitamin C.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Phyl]

I was able to pick up some Selcon yesterday and fed her some last night. I don't have the whole water change process down yet. We picked up water at the LFS (because I don't have an RO/DI yet) and then had to spend the next day heating it (it was 68*) to get it up to temperature (is this necessary?). Finally got it into the tank last night. Took out some more of the bio balls (1/4), cleaned the protein skimmer and changed the filter pad. Hopefully that will keep my nitrates down some. How do I know what my DOC is? Can the LFS test that (typically)? Do I need yet another test kit?

I soaked some of the formula ? in it and fed it to them last night. She's still eating well though it looks like it is getting harder for her to move her jaw. She has less cottony white stuff but I can see the underlying red a little better now and her left cheek looks a little swollen (I don't know if that is a new part of the condition or not). Is this healing or worsening? I'm not sure what stages she's going to go through so I don't know if she's on the upswing or downward spiral!

What meaty foods do you recommend? The only "meaty" foods that I have are the formula one, two and some mysis frozen. I have some cyclopeze flake, some flake (?) and pellet (?) that they were feeding them in the LFS when I bought them.

How often should she be fed/vitamin'd while she's ill?

thanks for your thoughts and input! I thank you and my clown thanks you!

 

[steve-s]

and then had to spend the next day heating it (it was 68*) to get it up to temperature (is this necessary?).

Yes but as long as it's within a few degree's your good to go. It does not need to be exact. 10° difference is far too much though.

How do I know what my DOC is? Can the LFS test that (typically)? Do I need yet another test kit?

Not something you can test for conventionally without an ORP meter. Personally I wouldn't bother with it. DOC is the beginning of the nitrogen cycle so the level of nitrate can often a good indication of how well the tank processes waste. The lower the nitrate, the more efficient the breakdown. It does not however mean the DOC is low from the beginning so it can be a bit deceiving in that regard. As long as you keep up with frequent water changes in the short term, you should be just fine.

I soaked some of the formula ? in it and fed it to them last night. She's still eating well though it looks like it is getting harder for her to move her jaw. She has less cottony white stuff but I can see the underlying red a little better now and her left cheek looks a little swollen (I don't know if that is a new part of the condition or not). Is this healing or worsening? I'm not sure what stages she's going to go through so I don't know if she's on the upswing or downward spiral!

The cotton appearance lessening is a good sign. The redness and swelling could have been there previously but could have been covered and not well noticed. Watch it for now to ensure it does not get larger but I would continue as discussed.

What meaty foods do you recommend? The only "meaty" foods that I have are the formula one, two and some mysis frozen. I have some cyclopeze flake, some flake (?) and pellet (?) that they were feeding them in the LFS when I bought them.

The mysis would be good, you could also mix in some slightly softend mashed peas. It's a good natural vitamin booster and will kepp the "pipes" clean.

How often should she be fed/vitamin'd while she's ill?

Every day or other day depending on how often you feed. Just be watchful of water quality. The vitamins are quite high in fatty acids and will add a bit of a "slick" on the waters surface.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Phyl]

Try as we might, she didn't make it. She was swimming fine Christmas night and while she looked horrible I thought she'd make it since she was still looking like she was eating but first thing Sunday morning when we went to check on her she had passed. So sad. Her partner had started looking a little stressed (had some white looking fissures on his side) but he's looking great now. Maybe the Melafix helped him out in the process (speaking of Melafix... man did that This portion of your post has been edited, it is in violation of the User Agreement. Further violations of the User Agreement could result in removal from our community. with my protein skimmer -- how many water changes before I can plug it back in?!).

Thanks for your help and advice. I appreciate it and hopefully the learning will benefit my future fish.

 

[steve-s]

Very sorry for your loss

She was swimming fine Christmas night and while she looked horrible I thought she'd make it since she was still looking like she was eating but first thing Sunday morning when we went to check on her she had passed. So sad. Her partner had started looking a little stressed (had some white looking fissures on his side) but he's looking great now.

You sure the cottony appearances weren't more like wisps of cloud? Like a milky mucus coating? It's odd that by your last post the clown was improving and the other clown should not have shown a similar condition unless possibley parasitic. I would google brooklynella hostilis and see if the symptoms are anything alike.

(speaking of Melafix... how many water changes before I can plug it back in?!).

Melafix is tea tree oil and act like a thick soap when added to the water. It sticks to almost any artificial surface. Running GAC and a few water changes should remove most of it. Just have some prepared SW on hand when you do run the skimmer. It will still most likely pull out alot of clear water from the tank. You can also adjust the skimmer down some.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Phyl]

They weren't really presenting similarly. She had cottony stuff on her (looked more like decaying flesh, in retrospect) and he had a little white line across his upper back. He looked like he had a "scratch"; not raised, bumpy nor cottony (just white). I just assumed that he was also suffering a little stress from the move. The scratch line is back to normal coloring.

She took a certain turn for the worse on Christmas eve and there was just no getting her any help at that point. I hoped she would make it to the day after when I could get something to help her. I guess if I've learned anything it is to have the meds on hand, JIC something gets worse and I'm not able to get back to the LFS.

The protein skimmer will have to stay off for now. I'm not turning it on again until it stops overflowing like that! Even turned down, I lost a TON of water (to my carpet) when I wasn't looking!

Thanks again.

 

[Phyl]

Oh and btw, my sincerest applogies to the powers that be! I had NO idea that would be considered a violation. I'll brush up on my forum rules. SO sorry!

 

[steve-s]

I guess if I've learned anything it is to have the meds on hand, JIC something gets worse and I'm not able to get back to the LFS.

Keep an eye on the second clown. If it begins to show any sign of similar ailments QT it right away and start a Maracyn II treatment. Double the dose daily for 7 full days. If it doesn't end up being bacterial, the Maracyn presents no danger if needing to mix with another med.

As far as having meds on hand, that would rarely help. Although knowing where they can be obtained quickly is a plus. Any problem that pops up wouldn't necessarily be treatable the same way each time and if the animal dies within a day or two, the med would not have generaly made any difference. Many meds also have a shelf life so they may end up being wasted.

If you will be adding more fish soon and feel safer having something then the two main ones would be Maracyn II for gram negative bacterial problems and Cupramine (copper) with the corresponding multitest copper kit. Those and a proper refractometer should allow you to treat the most common ailments as long as you have the proper QT set up.

Cheers
Steve