Sick Volitan Lionfish

[grimes135]

i just received a Volitan Lionfish on Saturday the 9th. He currently is in my 45 gal quarantine tank. He has yet to eat but i am not too worried about that yet, since i have only had him for about 24 hours. i am currently trying to feed live guppies to initiate feeding and i have also tried frozen krill with a feeding stick. he has shown no interest to either. My water quality is perfect. 8.2 ph, 0 ammonia 0 nitrates and 0 nitrites. His breathing is not iritic or elevated. swims normally and doesnt seem stressed. there is basically nothing about his personality or actions that show any signs of distress. if anyone could please let me know what the discolorations on his skin are that would be great. thanks

 

[Esra]

No idea, but they look like scrapes or scratches.

How did you get him, have you seen them get worse or were they there from the start?

 

[grimes135]

Got him from a friend who is getting out of the hobby. nothing has changed since i got him. they might be scrapes but i personally didnt see any behavior that would cause that much injury. like i said based on his actions there doesnt seem to be anythign wrong with him. i just want to make sure that i am doing everything that i can. The way that the lfs decribed velet to me makes me think that he may have it. is there any way to rule out common deseases that he doesnt have? i am pretty sure that it is not ich, everytime that i have seen it it hasnt looked like this. thanks for all your help you guys.

 

[roka64]

Try soaking his food in garlic extreme.
His dorsal fins look kind of short.
How did you acclimate him to your tank?
What other critters do you have in there?

 

[grimes135]

he is in my 45 quarantine tank so he is the only one in there. i drip aclimated him for about 2-3 hours. i tried soaking the krill in garlic, but he showed no interest. the person that i got him from only fed him live and i am trying to ween him off of it but that may take some time. i have also tried garlic soaked marine cuisine and mysis shrimp also showed no interest on either. He was also the only fish in the previous tank except for a damsel so i dont think that nipped fins are the answer, however only the dorsal fin appears to be short so i doubted that fin rot had anything to do with it. thanks.

 

[Devilishturtles]

Your fish looks like it is suffering from HLLE, Head and Lateral Line Erosion. You can sorta see it in the spots near the head (which is where the condition starts) and from what seems to me to be erosion of the Lateral Line going back the body.

If the fish was only ever fed the same live feeders all the time, that could be your problem.

Read these articles and see what you think.


http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-06/sp/index.php
http://saltaquarium.about.com/cs/headlledisease/a/aa040901.htm

 

[grimes135]

Those two articles were very helpful, thank you devilishturtles. Upon further inspection of the fish i noticed what appeared to be a scratch on his side not shown in the picture. this leads me to believe that it is simply a scratch from the liverock or something like that. i feel this way because many of the that main symptoms of mhlle are missing including the sunk in eyes and loss of coloration. however i am no expert. fortunately from the research i have done the treatment for mhlle would only promote healing of a scratch if that is all that it is. so why not do it?
Two important things brought up in those articles were Vitamin deficiencies, especially vitamin C and A. now it has not been proven whether either of these could cause mhlle or are successful treatments but a well ballacnced diet could only benefit the fish. Currently the fish is not eating. its previous diet consisted of live feeder guppies and gold fish. i am trying to ween off of this with frozen krill (thawed and soaked in garlic) with a feeding stick. what vitamin supplements would you recommend and do they have vitamin C and A in them? does anyone know of a food that contains highly unsaturated fatty acids?
Next is water quality if poor nitrates are a cause then being in my system with zero nitrate would allow him to get better. the use of carbon has been said to cause mhlle and is not used in my main tank of my quarantine so that should not be an issue. Also certain heavy metals including copper have had negative effect to fish ecpesially with mhlle, resulting in a weak immune system. i do 15% weekly ptw with RODI water so all levels of heavy metals should be diluted over time if they are infact present, and using garlic supplements should boost a weakened immune system.
One possible treatment, although never proved, has been exposure to sunlight. i personally feel that this is a little to drastic, and the process of moving the fish would cause more stress and potentially do more harm than good. In combination with this i ordered a UV Sterilized to help kill unwanted bacteria and viruses and i am planning to treat with a broadban antibiotic.

Now everything that i am planning on doing is a potential treatment for mhlle, even though i am not convinced that it is, however could doing these things harm the fish if it is not mhlle?
thanks for all your help and sorry for the long post.

 

[Devilishturtles]

HLLE isn't really an illness in itself, but rather being exposed to poor water quality, deficiencies, etc. like you mentioned. I wasn't accusing you of it, since you just got the fish and all. But you don't know what conditions the fish was in. Even though Lionfish eat live foods in the wild, they are also not freshwater fish, they are smaller marine fish and they vary. I guess it'd be similar if you only ate a vitamin bar for every meal for your entire life. You wouldn't be too healthy either.

Selcon is a good vitamin addition, as is Kent Marine Zoe. Garlic Extreme can also help boost the immune system of your fish and stimulate appetite. The precautions you are taking will not hurt the fish at all, it's all what you should ideally be doing in the first place.

I could definitley be wrong here, but that is what it looks like to me. Do you see a noticeable line in the middle of the fish, or just around the face? I couldn't really tell in the picture, could be that my eyes were playing tricks on me.

HTH

 

[grimes135]

Sorry about before i didnt mean to come off sounding offended, i know that you were not trying to say that it was my fault. i ordered a uv sterilizer just now and should get it soon. i picked up some penicillin today and will treat. i understand the importance of a good varied diet but what if the lionfish refuses to eat anything other than live, what would be the best and healthiest way to feed him in that situation? thanks

 

[Hara]

They look like abrasions from rockwork to me.

 

[roka64]

They look like abrasions from rockwork to me.

I was kind of thinking the same thing.
What was in the other tank and how was he caught, in order to get from the old tank to yours?

 

[grimes135]

when i picked him up there was live rock in the tank and when he tried to catch him it scared him and he thrashed through some of the rock work. that is why i am leading towards it being scratches of abrasions as opposed to mhlle. if it turns out that he will only eat live what would be the healthiest way for him to get a balanced diet? thanks

 

[Innovator]

They do look like abrasions to me, but keep a close eye on it because bacterial infections can become a problem due to their soft tissue.

Stick with gutloading ghost shrimp until you wean him onto prepared foods. Until then, go easy on the krill as it has shown negative effects in predatory fish when exclusively fed. Shrimp, squid/octopus, silversides, crab, etc can be offered and all can/should be injected with supplementation (selco, etc). I'd also recommend a feeding stick (rigid airline tubing works well) and try to coax the lion into thinking the food is alive (may take several tries).