Slow death of LPS corals

[Flreefer]

OK everyone, I need some input on an ongoing problem...
I've been steadily seeing the degradation of my LPS corals. Over the course of about 6-8 months, I watched a huge Hydnophora deteriorate. There is now about 5% of the original coral left. Now I am seeing the same thing take place on my Wall Hammer, Torch, and the start of it on my Pagoda. It seems that the tissue surrounding the top of the stony part, is slowly receding. All the poyps are still out, until the recession gets to them.
I've had all of these corals approximately 7 years, with little issue. The Hydnophora was its own seperate issue for a long time, and now just recently is becoming apparent on the others.
Nothing has changed in my routine, as far as maintanence. Weekly pwc's of 15 g, on an approximate 180g total volume. Only 4 fish, has been that way for 1 1/2 years. Livestock has been together for 8+ years, in this tank (180), for 1 3/4 years. SPS are doing great, 4 varieties of Monti, Acro Valida, growing well. This is a mixed reef, with 2 very large Leathers and many smaller Leather frags, plus mushrooms, and Zoos. Some mushrooms do very well, Ricordia and Zoos live, but don't really thrive.
I run a undersized skimmer , have a decent sized refugium, run phosphate pads (because I don't have a reactor....yet,plenty of live rock, and have 780w of T5 lighting. I dose BRS 2-part daily to keep my Ca at 420, Alk at 10. Mag is at 1380, Salinity at 1.0245, Ammo, Nitrite=0, Nitrate at <5. Tests are all Red Sea Pro, except Phosphate which is API, and shows 0. Temp is 81.
I do use vending machine water, but have done so for the entire 8+ years, I realize this is a variable into the mix, but it hasn't caused any problems in the past. The machine is serviced at least every 2 weeks.
My 3 trains of thought are 1-tank is too clean for LPS (only having 4 fish, and doing weekly pwc's. 2-too much light for the LPS (they are all approx. 6-8 inches under the water), slowly killing them off. And 3-chemical warfare from the Leathers.
Any thoughts will be greatly appreciated, as this is really bringing me down... It's killing me to see these corals die off, they were the largest I've ever seen, at any LFS, in the past 8 years. None have even come close...
I also feed this tank every 4 days, a mix of live Phyto, frozen rotifers, frozen coral food, and PE Mysis.
And as of now, have not run carbon in the past 2 years. I am looking into a GFO/Carbon reactor now...

 

[Race37]

I am interested to see this, I have no idea on the cause, but I had a hammer do the same thing. Hope to hear an answer.

 

[Mrc8858]

My prediction would he lighting is either off spectrum or they have grown to close to the light. Either way it sounds like something with your lighting is the issue other then the 1 unknown...what's happening to the water from the start... You said this started months ago so maybe get a TDS meter and test your source water. Maybe they switched brands of filter or something resulting in lower quality water for cheaper that people would never even notice. Just our corals lol

 

[Flreefer]

Thanks for the input Mrc. Yeah, the actinics were past their prime by a couple months. I changed 7 out of the 10, on Saturday. Hoping to see a turn around. Daylights are still within their range. I know it will take some time, if this was it, but nothing yet.
Really need to get a RO/DI unit to eliminate that possibility too. Maybe this week, I'm on the current group buy!
Thanks for the help.

 

[Mrc8858]

That's a lot of New bulbs at once. Did you do that right before all the others started to decline? Maybe trying to help one you hurt them all : /

 

[Flreefer]

I hear you, but no... Last bulb change was the daylights, this past December. I just changed out the 7 actinics this past Saturday, after seeing the decline in the Hammer, Torch and Pagoda.

 

[Sniperhank]

With receeding from the top like that I want to agree with lighting being the culprit. I have a scroll coral that I had moved here a couple months ago that started to do this. In this case, it was from the light being too strong for it. After moving it back to the old spot, which is more shaded, it appears to be doing better in terms of extending its polyps. I can't recall if the color has come back or not as I am currently at work.

 

[Flreefer]

The only reason I question it being a lighting issue, besides maybe old bulbs (which has been rectified), is that all corals have been in the same place for 1 3/4 years. Unless it is that they were getting too much light, and it could be that slow of a progression. All polyps have been, and still are expanded. Only when the recession of the white lip of the coral, gets right up to the polyps, do they start to retract...
Thanks for the input Hank.

 

[Sniperhank]

Np man. I might be wrong, but I can only compare how this was happening to corals in my tank. I don't think that it is because of the lighting being too strong, since they had been under the same lighting for so long. I'd say it probably came from being under bulbs that changed spectrum due to age. Having all of those bulbs changed at once might also be effecting them, giving them quite a shock IMO. But I'm quite limited in my knowledge with using actual bulbs.

 

[Flreefer]

I agree that shocking them needs to be avoided. My last bulb change was in December, and when I did this is I reduced the photoperiod drastically, slowly increasing it over the course of about a month. I know this probably wasn't the best way to do it, and should have replaced them in pairs or so, but that ends up being a real pita. Nothing appeared to be adversely effected, at the time. Even the now destroyed Hydnophora appeared to be making a comeback. Now 8 months later, the others have started to turn.
I will def be more conscious of this in the future, though. I'll just have to make a map of the bulbs, to track age and space out the replacement schedule. Unless I can jump into LED, like I've been wanting too...
Thanks for the input, losing these corals after having them about 7 years, is really breaking me...:'-(...
Have a good day, Hank.

 

[Sniperhank]

I have faith things will come around. You have the experience to handle it. Just keep your chin up brother.

Side note, be careful when you make the LED leap. I underestimated how strong they really were and cooked corals on my sandbed. I'm still turning my radions down. Currently 65% power at peak and still have some sps on sandbed.

 

[Flreefer]

Thanks man.... Appreciate the advice.
Oh well, if I lose the LPS, I'll trade out most of the Softies and remaining LPS, and go with a SPS tank, as these seem to be doing fine!

 

[ccCapt]

OK everyone, I need some input on an ongoing problem...
I run a undersized skimmer ,
I do use vending machine water,
And 3-chemical warfare from the Leathers.
And as of now, have not run carbon in the past 2 years. I am looking into a GFO/Carbon reactor now...

One thing we can't check for, unless you have access to a chemistry lab, is measuring the DOC's (dissolved organic compounds). My guess would be, taking into consideration the above quotes from your original post, your DOC levels may be a part of the problem along with the leathers. Even with regular water changes, they can build up over time.
I would suggest getting some good carbon, I run BRS ROX 0.8 in a reactor, and see if you notice any improvements. Getting your own RO/DI filter and a better skimmer, if possible, would probably help too.

 

[Sniperhank]

I forgot you don't run carbon! I'd give it a shot as capt said. I wish you lived close to me, I would just give you some of mine.

 

[Flreefer]

Thanks guys, I'm thinking carbon may help too. Working on getting some right now.

 

[Flreefer]

All I can seem to find locally, is Marineland activated carbon, think this would be good for now?? I want to get it it in as soon as possible, so can't order it, and wait a week. I'll get the ROX 0.8 on my next BRS order though.

 

[Flreefer]

Well couldn't find any ROX 0.8, so I picked up a 10 oz Marineland Black Diamond carbon and a 10 oz Chemipure. Going to mix them together. Since I don't have a reactor yet, and my old canister impellers are all messed up from using them on the fish pond outside, just gonna put them in a media bag in one of my baffle sections of my sump, after my PWC.
Hope this helps...this week I opted to leave 1/2 of my daylights off, thinking that maybe it was light shock, and so far...no change.

 

[Flreefer]

Think I may have just found the problem!! Was just finishing up with some maintainence and when I dipped my fingers into the fuge, I felt a little shock in the cuticles of my fingers. Main lights were off, fuge was lit, so thinking it was the fuge light I cleaned it all off even though there was barely any creep on the inside...not the light. After some work trying to isolate what was causing it, I believe it's my crappy, old skimmer! It's over 5 years old so I guess it's run it's course, but definitely time for a new one!!
I hope this was the cause of my LPS problems, but I am skeptical because the fish have showed no signs of distress.
Would it be possible that the stray voltage would effect my LPS, and not my fish?

 

[Flreefer]

Apparently not the skimmer either... Can't locate the source. Lights are clean, no creep at all, no heater....hoping its not one of my main pumps, have to try again when I get home from work.

 

[Sniperhank]

Still man, I'm glad you have found the issue.