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Old 12-19-2003, 01:22 PM   #1
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VERY DISCOURAGED REEFER....ICK CRISIS

ok this is the thing, my tank is pretty new, about 2 months old, just finished cycling 2 weeks ago. i already have an ick problem. i had it in my 20 gal amd started over in my new 55 gal, only to reoccur AGAIN!! i am so exhausted by this, ive tried medicatio, water changes, i dont know what else to do now....i have some corals in there now so i cant use the really deadly medication but i dont want to put anymore medication anyways, and i cant lower salinity cuz of the corals, and iver tiried to catch some of the fish but cat catch them all due to the rocks and caves......does anyone have any advice for me, ive heard something about foood with garlic. any anyone please help me. or if youve used any medication, WITH SUCCESS!! let me know what to do. i love the hobby and want it to be a pleasure not a chore.
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Old 12-20-2003, 01:29 PM   #2
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You could have avoided this mess if you had quarantined all your fish BEFORE they go into your display tank. Once you get ich in a reef the best thing to do is to bite the bullet and remove ALL the fish to another tank and treat them with hyposalinity. Leave the reef tank without any fish for a minimum of 30 days so the parasite starves before any fish are put back in. You can try feeding the fish garlic and using a powerful UV light, but the bottom line is that none of the so-called reef safe methods for treating ich works with any consistency. The proven methods that can be trusted to work involve copper, or hyposalinity. Hyposalinity is the best treatment but you cannot use it with inverts or live rock. I suggest that you set up a quarantine tank using a food grade rubbermaid container, some PVC pipe for hiding places, a sponge filter or biowheels for biological filtration, something to move the water around and a heater.
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Old 12-20-2003, 02:57 PM   #3
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Once you get ich in a reef the best thing to do is to bite the bullet and remove ALL the fish to another tank and treat them with hyposalinity. Leave the reef tank without any fish for a minimum of 30 days so the parasite starves before any fish are put back in.
I highly Agree... Remove the rocks if you have to to catch the fish.. You will never get rid of Ich without it...


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Old 12-21-2003, 11:43 PM   #4
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what's your flowrate like? and your water flow construction? it does help to increase it... it works for me. i used to have ich problem daily for my blue tangs and they're doing fabulous now after i improved my water flow.
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Old 12-22-2003, 12:52 AM   #5
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Water flow to cure ich, just when I thought I had heard it all!
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Old 12-22-2003, 01:22 AM   #6
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Cramk the temp of the tank to 82* - 84* and you will end the ICH problem... It will take a few weeks, but the symptoms will start diminishing soon after the temp hits the target... Saltwater ICH does not thrive in temps above 82*.. I have heard and experienced personally... I have had an ICH free tank for over a year since increasing the temp..Might want to try it....I do not advocate medications if other means can work...

I have to say here, that flow rate has nothing to do with ICH and getting rid of it...It is not logical. ICH is a water borne parasite that lives in opportunistic water qualities...not flow...
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Old 12-22-2003, 04:00 AM   #7
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i'm afraid to say that temperature has little effect on ich. Or at least for my case. My climate here is all round 30-32 degrees which is higher than stated here and the ich still strives in my tank previously in my tank which was maintained at around that temperature without any chiller. I've tried many ways and installed a chiller to maintain temperature at 27degrees and still didn't help much. The final modifications i made was to improve the waterflow round the back of my tank to eliminate totally all dead spot to improve water circulation and increase overall flowrate.
In my opinion, water flow does not directly has impact on ich, but it does help to promote better health for the fishes and this increase their immune system to combat ich. Furthermore, it prevents debris from accumulating in the tank and promotes general tank condition.
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Old 12-22-2003, 04:48 AM   #8
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Neither a temperature in the 80s or good water flow is going to cure ich. The optimal temperature for ich to thrive is 86F. It never hurts to improve the environment or water quality. Immune function has little to do with preventing the fish from getting ich. Fish do not have an innate immunity to ich. What little immunity that fish may have to ich is acquired immunity, which means they must first become infected before they can develop any acquired immunity. Even if they do develop some level of acquired immunity it is not often full and it is of limited duration. You might want to check out www.advancedaquarist.com for a series of articles about ich beginning in the November issue.
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Old 12-22-2003, 12:13 PM   #9
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Neither a temperature in the 80s or good water flow is going to cure ich. The optimal temperature for ich to thrive is 86F.
Not to argue here, but, the articles you mentioned state the ICH thrives in 76* - 80* water not above. ICH cannot survive in 86* water. It has been proven, science does stand behind it, as well as many reefers and fish keepers around the world.

Birman, if you think raising the temp won't help, where did the water flow thing come from? I don't recall seeing tht in ANY material read nor advised in this forum or others.. I just need clarification on that one...


TerryB,
See a post I participated in last year...here

edited to take out "I am not saying it can't happen" because I believe it won't happen...
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Old 12-22-2003, 12:57 PM   #10
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Timbo2,
I don't mean to argue, but I do want to respond. I am well informed on the subject of Cryptocaryon irritans and how to treat an infection. If you would like a reference to support my statement that 86F is the optimal temperature for ich then you can find it in the best fish disease book available. The book is Fish Disease Diagnosis and Treatment by Edward J. Noga. Dr. Noga is the professor of aquatic medicine at North Carolina State University, College of Veterinary Medicine. I am sure that you can find his book available at Amazon.com or BN.com.
The link that I posted to AdvancedAquarist.com is to a series of articles that I wrote. Here is a snippet from part four in the series that will appear in the February 2004 issue of the magazine:
Temperature manipulation or raising the temperature to 86F is a treatment that has been used with some success against freshwater ick Ichthyophthirius multifiliis. However, the optimal temperature for the reproduction of Cryptocaryon irritans is 86F so raising the temperature to this level will not kill this parasite (Noga, 2000).

Raising the water temperature to a lesser degree has also been suggested as a means of speeding up the life cycle of Cryptocaryon irritans. While it is true that the life cycle of this parasite is temperature dependant, speeding up the life cycle may not be helpful to the fish. Raising the temperature can change the blood pH causing further stress to fish already weakened by disease (Bartelme, 2000a. McDonald & Milligan, 1992). If the water temperature was not too low to begin with, then it may be better not to adjust this parameter. If the temperature is adjusted, any change should be small and take place slowly.‚ÄĚ Any perceived success you have had with raising the temperature to kill saltwater ich can only be coincidental.
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