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Old 03-24-2006, 08:16 PM   #11
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Well, I'm happy to say that with improved feeding and daily treating with the Coral-Vital, my fish is 100% better! He is back to acting normally, and there are no more spots on him!

Paul
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38 Gallon (Freshwater): 1 Green Swordtail, 3 Yo-Yo Loaches, 1 Clown Pleco, 1 Blue Gourami, 4 Otocinclus, 7 Cherry Barbs.

46 Gallon (Saltwater): 60 pounds Lalo Live Rock, 60 pounds aragonite sand, 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Mushroom Coral, 1 Emerald Crab, various snails and hermit crabs.

10 Gallon (Saltwater quarantine):
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Old 03-24-2006, 09:10 PM   #12
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I have 1 experience with RidIch . . . result: Dead fish, terminally blue air hoses left behind in their memory.
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Old 03-26-2006, 03:21 PM   #13
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Well, I am frustrated. My 46-gallon is ready for a fish, and I don't have a healthy fish to put in there. And now I have wasted an entire week attempting this Coral-Vital treatment.

I treated for 6 days like the LFS said, and the Coral Beauty got better, but never really looked normal. I did not treat yesterday, and now today I see a few tiny spots on his head and see him scraping himself against my heater and my rocks. I know that the best treatment would be hyposalinity, but with that method, my 46-gallon will "uncycle." How can I keep the bacteria alive in the 46-gallon while I get this Coral Beauty healthy in QT? I don't want to put a fish with ich in my display tank, but purchasing a fish from my LFS and putting him directly in there seems just as dangerous?

Any advice?
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38 Gallon (Freshwater): 1 Green Swordtail, 3 Yo-Yo Loaches, 1 Clown Pleco, 1 Blue Gourami, 4 Otocinclus, 7 Cherry Barbs.

46 Gallon (Saltwater): 60 pounds Lalo Live Rock, 60 pounds aragonite sand, 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Mushroom Coral, 1 Emerald Crab, various snails and hermit crabs.

10 Gallon (Saltwater quarantine):
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Old 03-27-2006, 10:38 AM   #14
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Fish are not required to keep the bacteria up in the display. Any nutrient added will do exactly the same thing. While the angel is in the QT, just feed the 46 gal about 2x a week with a small amount of food. That will be plenty to maintain the bacteria.

You will need to leave the display tank fallow for about 6 weeks.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 03-27-2006, 10:47 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkremer
For the ich, the LFS recommended a product called Marc Weiss Coral-Vital. It is designed to help Corals, but the LFS guy said it does not kill the ich, but disrupts the ich and causes the ich to "go dormant."
I've never heard of this stuff but I don't know that I would believe him..
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Old 03-27-2006, 10:55 AM   #16
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Don't, it is complete nonsense.

Cheers
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Old 03-28-2006, 06:02 PM   #17
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Yeah, it didn't work. I called him back and he told me not to worry about putting the fish in the display tank, because the Coral Vital would cause the ich to go dormant and then he would get healthy and be able "to fight it off." He said that all fish carry it on them, but don't get it until they get stressed!!! Argh! Is there no test you have pass to be a LFS employee?? Does nobody know what they are talking about?

Anyway, I removed the live rock from my QT (it will not be going back in, newbie mistake), placed the live rock in a separate tub where it will remain for 6 to 8 weeks to finish off any ich in the rocks...

I have now dosed the QT tank with Coppersafe by Mardel. I did this on Sunday. My Coral Beauty still has some spots on him, but there are less of them. It says on the bottle that 1 dose should be good for a whole month...am I involved in a waiting game then? Just allow him to be in there for a few more weeks and the ich should die? I chose copper because I don't intend to ever have live rock or invertebrates in the QT again, and I have read it is very effective...
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38 Gallon (Freshwater): 1 Green Swordtail, 3 Yo-Yo Loaches, 1 Clown Pleco, 1 Blue Gourami, 4 Otocinclus, 7 Cherry Barbs.

46 Gallon (Saltwater): 60 pounds Lalo Live Rock, 60 pounds aragonite sand, 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Mushroom Coral, 1 Emerald Crab, various snails and hermit crabs.

10 Gallon (Saltwater quarantine):
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:15 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkremer
He said that all fish carry it on them, but don't get it until they get stressed!!! Argh! Is there no test you have pass to be a LFS employee?? Does nobody know what they are talking about?
I've heard much worse but gladly you know better.

Quote:
Anyway, I removed the live rock from my QT (it will not be going back in, newbie mistake), placed the live rock in a separate tub where it will remain for 6 to 8 weeks to finish off any ich in the rocks...


Quote:
It says on the bottle that 1 dose should be good for a whole month...am I involved in a waiting game then? Just allow him to be in there for a few more weeks and the ich should die? I chose copper because I don't intend to ever have live rock or invertebrates in the QT again, and I have read it is very effective...
Copper is very effective but not all are made equally. If you ever need it again, choose Cupramine by Seachem. Much less toxic/stressful on fish, especially angels which are nown to have adverse reactions. FWIW, hyposalinity would have been a much wiser option.

In any event, when using Coppersafe, the proper dosage is 1 teaspoon for every 4 gallons of water volume. Even though it says it will stay in solution it almost never does. You will need to test the level of copper 2x each day to be sure it stays there. It will also be necessary to do water changes as most copper remedies destroy the biofilter. You cannot use any carbon or similar products either. Be sure the kit you get is specifically manufactured for chelated forms of copper. Test to verify the level is 1.5-2.0 ppm at all times. You will need to leave the angel in the copper treatment for 2 weeks. Do not extend that time frame as it will begin to hamper the overall health of the fish.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:27 PM   #19
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Thank you for your very knowledgeable and easy to understand response. I know hyposalinity would have been better, but that treatment takes 6 weeks, doesn't it? I was trying to find a safer way to treat in 2 weeks so as not to waste my cycle in my 46 gallon. It has been cycled for almost a week now, and although I am putting a little food in there every few days, I would like to get a fish in there...

Where would I find a copper test? I do not have one currently. I put in the dosage...2.5 teaspoons for my 10 gallon QT...I don't have any filtration other than the HOB filter pad, no carbon or anything...I treated the tank 48 hours ago. He still has some white spots on him, but most have fallen off, and he is not acting quite as "panicky" as he was the day I put the treatment in. I am assuming if he had a gill infestation, they are falling out now, and the copper should be killing anything new tomites that are being born.

I am curious if he looks healthy at 12 days, if it would be OK to take him out and put him in the 46? I am having company over that day, and will have my new lights (Orbit 192W), my cleanup crew, and it would be amazing to have the Angel in there too for my company...but don't worry, the health of my fish and not infecting my main tank is more important than showing off for company...I will do what it takes to get him healthy.

Paul
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38 Gallon (Freshwater): 1 Green Swordtail, 3 Yo-Yo Loaches, 1 Clown Pleco, 1 Blue Gourami, 4 Otocinclus, 7 Cherry Barbs.

46 Gallon (Saltwater): 60 pounds Lalo Live Rock, 60 pounds aragonite sand, 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Mushroom Coral, 1 Emerald Crab, various snails and hermit crabs.

10 Gallon (Saltwater quarantine):
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Old 03-28-2006, 08:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkremer
I know hyposalinity would have been better, but that treatment takes 6 weeks, doesn't it?
You have to fallow the main tank for that long so it's really not an issue. Ideally, hypo should last 4 weeks past the time the last spot is observed on the fish. Typically 5-6 weeks though.

Quote:
I was trying to find a safer way to treat in 2 weeks so as not to waste my cycle in my 46 gallon. It has been cycled for almost a week now, and although I am putting a little food in there every few days, I would like to get a fish in there...
It's all good to be eager but don't be in a hurry

As I said above, you have six weeks before the fish goes back in the main. As for the cycle, the bacteria does not care if the ammonia comes from the fish or the food, as long as it gets nutrient the tank will not need to recycle.

Quote:
Where would I find a copper test?
Check you LFS or see if there are any local reefing communities/local reefers from this site that can help/lend you one.

Quote:
I am assuming if he had a gill infestation, they are falling out now, and the copper should be killing anything new tomites that are being born.
Copper will kill all free swimming stages of the parasite so once they fall away, you should not notice any new trophonts.

Quote:
I am curious if he looks healthy at 12 days, if it would be OK to take him out and put him in the 46?
Nope, the main will still be infectious at 12 days. Once the treatment in the QT is done, the fish should remain in the QT for an additional 2 weeks. After the initial treatment is done, remove the copper (water changes & carbon) and then watch the fish to be sure the treament was 100% successful and there are no signs of secondary infection. More commonly if the copper was maintained correctly, the parasite will not be an issue but bacterial infections may take several days or longer to manifest water quality depending. If that does happen, the fish is exactly where it needs to be and can be treated quickly and easily.

Cheers
Steve
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