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Old 03-19-2006, 01:36 AM   #1
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What the ich?

OK, I noticed my fish has been acting a little strangely for the last week or so, but I could never pinpoint a problem. I checked all parameters, ammonia 0, nitrite 0, nitrate less than 20, pH 8.0, etc...

Today, I inspected him again, Coral Beauty Angelfish, and I saw ich spots!!! He has about 5 or 6 on his head, and about 4 or 5 more on his body and fins. Today, he was freaking out as fish do when they come down with ich...

Here's my question: How did this happen? He's been in that tank for over 2 months! Wouldn't this have shown up in the first few weeks? Here is a timeline:

Early January: Set up a 10 gallon aquarium, intended for quarantine...plotted the rise of my 46 gallon.

Jan 10, 2006 : Purchased a Coral Beauty Angelfish, appeared very healthy, acted normally.

Late January : Performed my first water change. Up until this point, I was using treated tap water. I found a horrendous algae problem, and realized after more research that RO water was the way to go. Began using RO water for evaporation topoffs.

Feb 23, 2006 : Set up my 46-gallon aquarium, very slowly and carefully moved the 10-gallon aquarium to the base. I went as slow and gently as I could with this, and my fish didn't seem extremely stressed by the move, although there was a 4 degree temp difference (why I used different thermometers I don't know ) in the replacement water in the water change I performed that day...I used RO for this water change.

March 11, 2006: Noted that my fish was beginning to act strangely, but nothing so terrible as to worry me.

March 15, 2006 : Noted my fish was continuing to act strangely (jerking movements, hanging out in the corners of the tank), began to become concerned, tested all water parameters, everything is fine.

March 18, 2006 : SPOTS! He definitely has ich.

Could that move on the 23rd of February have been the stressor? Would it have taken almost another month after the move for it to become visible? In any case, how did the ich survive in that water for 2 months without infecting him? And now what procedures should I take to cure him?

Also, how will this affect my 46-gallon? I am currently in full cycle swing in the 46-gallon, estimate 2 weeks before it is ready for fish...I can't put a fish with ich in there...how am I going to get a fish in there now at the end of the cycle? Putting a fish direct from the LFS seems just as dangerous to me. I thought I had this down, a very healthy fish in the 10-gallon ready to go, now shows up with ich! How frustrating! Help!
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38 Gallon (Freshwater): 1 Green Swordtail, 3 Yo-Yo Loaches, 1 Clown Pleco, 1 Blue Gourami, 4 Otocinclus, 7 Cherry Barbs.

46 Gallon (Saltwater): 60 pounds Lalo Live Rock, 60 pounds aragonite sand, 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Mushroom Coral, 1 Emerald Crab, various snails and hermit crabs.

10 Gallon (Saltwater quarantine):
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Old 03-19-2006, 01:48 AM   #2
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Yes, more likely the sudden temp cahnge although 4 degrees is not much it could have done it. Did anything else come from the LFS during that time? I would think that any ich would have just about been through the life cycle by early March, but it can hange on.

Is the CB still in the 10g? Have you started treatment?
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Old 03-19-2006, 02:22 AM   #3
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No, the Coral Beauty is the only thing (besides a few pounds of live rock, RO water and salt) that have gone into the aquarium since the beginning. Yes, he is in the 10 gallon, and I just noticed it a couple of hours ago, so no, I have nothing to begin treatment with...I'm curious what the best method is?

That was my question, how did it hang on for 2 months? Usually I quarantine for 4 weeks...he comes down with ich after 2 months!!!
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38 Gallon (Freshwater): 1 Green Swordtail, 3 Yo-Yo Loaches, 1 Clown Pleco, 1 Blue Gourami, 4 Otocinclus, 7 Cherry Barbs.

46 Gallon (Saltwater): 60 pounds Lalo Live Rock, 60 pounds aragonite sand, 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Mushroom Coral, 1 Emerald Crab, various snails and hermit crabs.

10 Gallon (Saltwater quarantine):
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Old 03-19-2006, 10:14 AM   #4
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It has not been unheard of for Ich to have an extended life cycle up to 8 weeks. So it is possible the move and the temp difference stressed him and made him suseptable to Ich. A 4 degree difference in water temp is alot. Hyposalinity and heat is the favored method to get rid of Ich.

Read these:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/mini1.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2003/mini2.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2004/mini3.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2004/mini4.htm
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issu...2004/mini5.htm

Good Luck,
Brian
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Old 03-19-2006, 04:24 PM   #5
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Old 03-19-2006, 04:49 PM   #6
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He looks better today, he's not freaking out. I tried a new food today, spirulina, and he loved it, he gobbled it all up.

For the ich, the LFS recommended a product called Marc Weiss Coral-Vital. It is designed to help Corals, but the LFS guy said it does not kill the ich, but disrupts the ich and causes the ich to "go dormant." The product won't harm live rock, corals, or invertebrates. He said that I can use this product in my quarantine tank, and it should halt the ich from any new infestations. Then I can remove the fish from QT into the main tank and then treat the QT tank (even with a complete dry out) to kill it without putting the fish through the stress of harsh medications or transfer treatments.

He said he treats all his saltwater tanks with this product the day before a shipment of new fish, and treats fish with ich with it, and has found it very effective. Their fish always look healthy, and stay that way when brought home. I figured I'd give it a try!

Paul
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38 Gallon (Freshwater): 1 Green Swordtail, 3 Yo-Yo Loaches, 1 Clown Pleco, 1 Blue Gourami, 4 Otocinclus, 7 Cherry Barbs.

46 Gallon (Saltwater): 60 pounds Lalo Live Rock, 60 pounds aragonite sand, 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Mushroom Coral, 1 Emerald Crab, various snails and hermit crabs.

10 Gallon (Saltwater quarantine):
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Old 03-20-2006, 07:21 AM   #7
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Sorry to hear about your problem Paul. Things were going so well for you too

I don't have any experience with using Coral Vital, but I have seen the labelling on it regarding it being useful with ich. I've always heard that hypo-salinity is the best treatment option. I have seen the product called Kick-Ich actually work on a couple of occasions, but have read here that most people consider it to be unreliable and it's expensive to boot. My buddy treated a tang that he got from Petco which had it pretty bad and it did clear it up. Might be worth a try if you're not equipped to do the hypo. A garlic supplement will probably help also. Good luck.
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Old 03-20-2006, 12:29 PM   #8
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Does anyone have experience with RidIch? A friend of mine says he has successfully treated ich with on every occasion he has had to deal with it. The problem with it is that it is malachite green and formalin, and you cannot have any live rock in the aquarium. He said it will also color things blue you would rather not have blue, but that it works well.

Anyone else with experience with it? If the Coral Vital does not help, I may try it, but what can I do with my live rock in the meantime? I have 5 pounds in there...

Paul
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38 Gallon (Freshwater): 1 Green Swordtail, 3 Yo-Yo Loaches, 1 Clown Pleco, 1 Blue Gourami, 4 Otocinclus, 7 Cherry Barbs.

46 Gallon (Saltwater): 60 pounds Lalo Live Rock, 60 pounds aragonite sand, 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Mushroom Coral, 1 Emerald Crab, various snails and hermit crabs.

10 Gallon (Saltwater quarantine):
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Old 03-20-2006, 01:30 PM   #9
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I am not fond of kick ich. This may help you some:
http://www.fantasyreef.com/viewtopic.php?t=678
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Old 03-20-2006, 01:47 PM   #10
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No, not Kich Ich, RidIch..

http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...1&N=2004&Nty=1

Paul
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38 Gallon (Freshwater): 1 Green Swordtail, 3 Yo-Yo Loaches, 1 Clown Pleco, 1 Blue Gourami, 4 Otocinclus, 7 Cherry Barbs.

46 Gallon (Saltwater): 60 pounds Lalo Live Rock, 60 pounds aragonite sand, 1 Coral Beauty Angelfish, 1 Peppermint Shrimp, 1 Mushroom Coral, 1 Emerald Crab, various snails and hermit crabs.

10 Gallon (Saltwater quarantine):
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