Where to start

[incloud]

Hello everyone, this is my first post here and I am resorting to a forum to try and get some answers (solid) on where to start with the mess I'm in. I started a Fluval Edge 12 gallon marine tank in August, it was a pain to maintain so I purchased a 46 Gal. Bowfront. The Bowfront has been set up now for about a month. I used everything from the Fluval which included live sand and one pound of live rock. I'm pretty sure the Fluval had cycled as I tested and saw a rise and drop in all API Ammonia, Nitrite and then Nitrate. Being I only had a pound of live rock I think I was recycling every time I cleaned the Fluval 306 canister. Had no idea what i was doing and am anal and a bit OCD. Kept cleaning every bit of funk or algae I saw. Bad, I know. Anyway, my setup now is with one Fluval 305 as a mechanical filter with Carbon also. Also, a Fluval 306 as straight BIO filtration. I have about 2" of mixed live sand, aragonite and crushed coral. There's a Tom's skimmer at the top of the tank for one feed and a sock on the other stock Fluval feed. I have one Hydor Koralia Nano powerhead and a 1050 in the mail. Oh, I also built a spraybar out of PVC and connected the two Fluval returns to it. It works great and provides a good amount of surface agitation. Now the problem: I have 2 small clowns, a pearl scale butterfly and a bunch of crabs and snails. Also a ployp colony. There's a black clown goby in a recently built quarantine tank. When I brought the butterfly home a couple weeks ago, it broke out with white spots (ick) and I have been treating it for a little over a week with Voogle and Ick Attack. It's gotten much better, but there are still occasional spots. I have no idea what to do or how long to wait before I can add any fish from quarantine. The internet and every LFS I go to has sorted advice. All it really does is stress me out and cost more money. I just want to know if I should take all the fish in my DT out and put them in quarantine to eliminate the ick from them. Then how do I completely remove the ick from the display tank with coral and live rock and the such. Seems I can not get a solid answer on this. Some say the ick will die without fish, some say use copper, some hypo salinity. Last but not least, some say you can never get rid of the ick. With all that, I feel as though I have destroyed my tank and am ready to give up. What fun is there with a gamble at all times whether or not you get an ick outbreak and have to go without your tank for months as described? I love the hobby and adore my fish, but I have a life and can't afford to spend 8 hours a day maintaining their world. Please if anyone could lead me in the right direction here, it would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance for any and all support on this lengthy explanation.

Water all tests fine, have to buffer for 8.2-8.4 PH (Red Sea Coral Pro Salt)
78 Degrees DT and QT
1.021 Salinity DT and QT

 

[TheTodd]

There are others on here that probably provide more detail (and there are threads on here) but if your DT has no fish for about two months, the Ich basically dies off due to not having a host. For that, you would need to get all your fish out into a quarantine tank, but you have a few fish, so you'd want a decent size QT. Hypo and copper work. All the other meds don't do much. The "it never goes away" probably comes from those that have only used the store bought meds that don't really work.

 

[Hondatek]

Move all your fish to qt and leave the main tank without fish for 8 weeks. No host the ich will die. Treat all fish in qt with either hyposalintity or copper. Those are the only two cures for marine ich .

 

[incloud]

Thanks!

Thanks for your replies, I am just so overwhelmed at this point. What is killing me is that this can happen at any given time. So I move all the fish to QT and treat, wait two months with an empty DT while monitoring the QT for the fishes health, place them back in DT and rely on hope that I did not miss one single microscopic parasite. I feel I made a mistake taking this on, it's a full time job that you can lose at any given time. Sorry for the negativity!

 

[Hondatek]

Well you have to treat the fish in qt with the 2 proven methods before they go back and you will be ick free. My motto is if it's wet qt it. I even take it a step further and qt my new fish for 4 weeks in hypo kill any parasites . I have been down the same path your on. Just make sure you learn from your mistakes. Ich free tanks are possible it just takes a lot of work . Hang in there you'll get it taken care of.

 

[incloud]

Right now I've got a black clown goby, 2 oscellaris clowns in my 10 gallon QT. I tried catching the butterfly earlier but it is near impossible. After work I'm planning on removing the rock and catching the butterfly. The clowns I gave a freshwater dip before placing in QT. I was planning on dipping the butterfly and placing in QT. I'd imagine though that now I will have two ick sick tanks. But one (DT) can be treated to remove ick without killing bio (live rock)or inverts by waiting 2 months. Then I drop the salinity and raise the temp on the QT to kill off the ick and hope nothing dies. Sound about right?

 

[Hondatek]

Skip the fw dip and the temp raise . Increased temps do nothing for marine ich and fw dips aren't a cure just a fast way to give your fish some relief. Just get them all out and administer hypo or copper treatment.

 

[incloud]

Could you please give me your best opinion based on my low level of experience what my best path is; hypo or copper. I am honestly getting tired of dumping money into this trying different suggestions. Hypo, I need to buy a refractometer I'd imagine, another sixty bucks at least. So far I'm at over a grand in this, with the fish being less than a hundred all together. Spending 100's to save a thirty dollar fish is a little absurd. But I do love the little guys. Regardless I have already been using useless meds and wasting time and money the last three weeks with no luck. Too many Chiefs, not enough indians. Copper I'd need the meds and all the testing equipment, right? No idea where to begin... Thanks for your patience!

 

[Hondatek]

Yes for hypo you need a refractometer and with copper you need a copper test kit. I prefer hypo since some fish are intolerant of copper.

 

[TheTodd]

It feels overwhelming now, but if you get the current situation under control and get your DT Ich-free (which it should be after 8 weeks) and get your fish Ich-free, then things should be more enjoyable afterwards. QT future additions and you save your DT from whatever they might have.

It actually does not require a lot of time to maintain a saltwater tank. Reefs are more tricky, but FOWLRs only require water changes and checking you parameters on a regular basis.

 

[incloud]

I have been doing hypo in the QT. The guy at my LFS said to get the clowns that were not showing signs out of there and put them back in the display tank. They are back in the DT now and look great now for a couple days. The butterfly that that caused this in the first place is currently in the QT under hypo. She seems to be doing a lot better. Just seems happier and has not had any signs of ich for a couple days. I'm figuring on leaving the butterfly in QT to assure she is clean and then put her back. The guy at the LFS states I am wasting my time trying to have a sterile tank, that parasites are inevitable. Having your parameters optimal and fish as healthy as possible will eliminate most occurrences of the ich parasite. The store I am referring to is a very impressive shop that is immaculate as far as tanks and all the fish are popping with color and no signs of any stress. The owner has over forty years experience as a diver and building commercial aquatic systems. The systems they have running the store are out of this world. For this hobby, it is a place of awe and quite amazing. I understand it is preferable to have a disease free tank and that sounds wonderful but battling something for months that is going to happen again does seem pointless. Maintaining optimal water conditions and healthy inhabitants feels quite rational. I appreciate all the help here and want to be clear that I am not trying to be impatient, just realistic. Searching the internet on this subject has an immense array of opinions and quite a bit of controversy. I have no interest in opinions but rather facts. It's really easy to get caught up in your hobby, become a genius at it and take it to the extreme. I do it with almost all my interests. There is certainly a science behind this and scientific answers to all its problems. Thanks to all your replies and suggestions and best of luck in the hobby.

 

[Hondatek]

Well it is a fact that your can have a ich free tank. No amount of stress will cause an ich outbreak in my tank since there is no ich to begin with. It's also a fact that keeping your butterfly in qt and putting your clowns back in the dt that you reintroduced ich into your system.

 

[incloud]

Congratulations! I hope one day I have your success.

 

[Hondatek]

Well I'm going to back off after that post. FYI unless you start qt everything and cure all your current fish you won't have a ich free tank . I'm done with this thread. Thanks.

 

[TheTodd]

I'd be interested in hearing how parasites are inevitable. That just does not make any scientific sense to me. If you have a sterile tank, QT your fish before adding them and maintain a healthy tank as far as parameters, then how are parasites inevitable? If you were put into a sterile environment, there are certain things you would never be exposed to. It would end up being genetics that had the biggest impact on your health.

It sounds like they have convinced you otherwise. Going with that line of thinking will (by its own logic) lead to future troubles. I think it was wise to keep the butterfly in QT, but don't see the scientific logic of pulling out the clowns that were exposed. That just seems impatient. it now seems like there is a good chance that they carried it back into the tank and/or can become hosts to what was still on there. This sort of thing is exactly why people believe it will always be there. The disease was not treated properly, so of course it is still in there. If treated properly, there is no reason.

 

[bskerrichard27]

No ick in mine ither I qt everything...but looking at the response I don't think your looking for advice I think yur looking for a debate of some sort..... So keep on going to the lfs for all your aquatic info because we all know the guy selling you stuff has better info then the people on hear with absolutely nothin to gain from helping you... Maybe we should all call your lfs and have him send us all his info so we can be as successful as u and him ......

 

[Reeffanman]

Well at least his Lfs will keep getting his business. All he has to do is keep giving bad advice and he'll keep getting business. Should see what other bad advise he gives. Ask him how to get rid of apitasia. Or if those little white snails hitching a ride on the bigger ones are baby ceriths? Never trust anyone who is taking your money. Most people will tell you whatever it takes to get your money. But those on here who have nothin to gain from giving bad advice you choose to ignore? Trust me if they were giving bad advice you would see us stepping up and saying its bad advice.
There are 3 ways to get rid of ich. Only 2 are mentioned because the the third causes too much stress on an already weak fish. And it involves moving the fish to a brand new tank every day or 2 for a few weeks. It involves alot of relocating and cleaning of tanks setting up again. It works but is alot more effort than hypo or copper so it is not commonly done.