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Old 09-29-2004, 11:42 PM   #21
steve-s
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Transporting a fish 1 hours distance wouldn't really be that much of an issue as long as temp is maintainable and a large enough bag is used for O2.

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Would this be harmful on the fish, or would you prefer this over putting the 3 fish in my QT?
Why all 3, why not just do one at a time?

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If I just do a waterchange everyday in the QT, regardless of how much ammonia is in the water, will that not help prevent a spike?
Not unless your going to monitor the water while your sleeping. No question ammonia will be reduced by water changes but the water changes won't really prevent a spike with an excessive bioload like that. There simpley isn't enough surface area's in such a small tank for enough bacteria to form and support the bioload of 3 fish.

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Old 09-30-2004, 10:04 AM   #22
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How long, from the first fish getting visible symptoms of whitespot, until it potentially kills the fish?

And, if I only treat one fish at a time, and treat each fish for 4-6 weeks, I won't be able to leave my main tank fallow for the 6 weeks will I, so the parasite will still be in the main tank water?
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:48 AM   #23
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How long, from the first fish getting visible symptoms of whitespot, until it potentially kills the fish?
It really depends on severeal factors, feeding, water quality, the health of the fish overall...etc. If the fish is able to develope some measure of aquired immunity, the fish can theoretically keep a full bown infestation at bay for upto 6 months but that would be under the most ideal conditions. Most however do not and the fish will typically succimb in a about 2-3 week once the parasite has had a few life cycles to reproduce in a confined space. Death is typically caused by the parasite if it infests the gills or through secondary infection.

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And, if I only treat one fish at a time, and treat each fish for 4-6 weeks, I won't be able to leave my main tank fallow for the 6 weeks will I, so the parasite will still be in the main tank water?
Now you've lost me. I was under the impression you had no fish?

You could not conceivabley treat only one fish at a time. Treatment will only be successful if all the fish are treated at the same time and the main display remains fallow.

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Old 09-30-2004, 10:53 AM   #24
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That's what I thought! No I have 2 fish, soon to be 3.
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Old 09-30-2004, 10:55 AM   #25
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Then you only need to QT the soon to be third.

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Old 09-30-2004, 11:03 AM   #26
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Hehe...

I'll tell u the situation. As you may know I've tried to keep 2 butterflys in my QT (not at the same time) but have failed with them both. The first one was great for 3 weeks, then I had an unexpected ammonia spike overnight and he was gone in a day.

Then the 2nd one was gone in 10 days, same thing happened, but I also suspect he had something else wrong with him by the look of him. The only difference between the 2 was I used tank water from my main tank to fill the first QT, so perhaps that's why the ammonia lasted out longer. I used newly mixed saltwater in my second QT. All I'm also using are 2 seeded sponges and 3 mugs for bacteria. Doesn't really seem to be enough though!

So basically I'm a bit disillusioned with it all at the moment - I'm scared if I try my QT again the same will happen and I wont be able to control the amm/nit. I don't have the time to be doing a waterchange every day or whatever to keep ammonia down!

So I put a message on another board asking for someone to QT my fish for me, outlining the conditions I wanted etc. Someone volunteered, but it transpires that he uses a 4-day medicine on all new fish in the same tank, TMC Marine Cure, then watches the fish for a week to make sure they're eating etc., then he puts them in the main tank.

He says a lot of his fish get slight whitespot from time to time but he just leaves it and it goes away. He says he's never lost a fish to whitespot.

I just want another fish in my tank! I only have 2 and i've spent a lot of time and money on my tank, and 7 months later I've still just got 2 fish!!

Part of me thinks you dont get anything if you dont take risks, but then again its not fair on the other fish if they get whitespot etc. so it's not really worth the risk. So I do want to do it properly, but dont seem to be having much luck at all.
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Old 09-30-2004, 11:39 AM   #27
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All I'm also using are 2 seeded sponges and 3 mugs for bacteria. Doesn't really seem to be enough though!
Your right, it isn't. The mugs will not be a very viable for bacterial colonization as they are much too smooth. Inert types of plastic are a much better choice due to the porous nature allowing them to hold infinately more bacteria for the same dimensions. You also need to be sure that the sponges are well rinsed in SW every few days (or daily) to prevent detritus and food build up which if not done will add to the problem. Syphoning out uneaten foods and detritus after each feeding is also a must. Sponge filters are a decent type of filtration for a QT but do not offer much in the way of water movement so you should really add even a low flow powerhead at the surface to encourage proper gas exchange.

Water changes in even a well set up QT are still going to be a must depending on tank size and fish load especially if meds are used. The larger the tank and smaller the load the less it may require. Be vary wary of your feeding routine as well. The fish does not need feeding as much as you might think. Depending on it's health, you could easily feed every second day or if daily, very small portions and not all at once. Only add enough the fish can eat in a minute or less. That way you will not have much uneaten foods although detritus would still be a concern.

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Someone volunteered, but it transpires that he uses a 4-day medicine on all new fish in the same tank, TMC Marine Cure, then watches the fish for a week to make sure they're eating etc., then he puts them in the main tank.
Extremely dangerous and should be avoided. I looked online but could not find any reference to the med you speak of so I couldn't judge effectiveness unless you where able to get an ingredient list. I can tell you though that treating fish prophylatically is hit and miss at best. Depending on what's used, it will not be effective against everything and 4 days is not nearly enough time for any cure to work effectively. IME, this person has been extremeley lucky and I would be quite confident in saying the fish had no ailments from the start.

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He says a lot of his fish get slight whitespot from time to time but he just leaves it and it goes away. He says he's never lost a fish to whitespot.
Bunk! Many wrongly assume that a spot on a fish automatically means ich when quite often it's simpley an anomoly. MIsdiagnosis of a problem will kill the fish just as fast as doing nothing in some cases. As far as this persons claims, I'd be quite interested to know the details of the set up, fish list and tank age. IMO, you are not being given an accurate account.

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Part of me thinks you dont get anything if you dont take risks, but then again its not fair on the other fish if they get whitespot etc. so it's not really worth the risk. So I do want to do it properly, but dont seem to be having much luck at all.
The best suggestion I can give you is to upgrade the size of the QT to possibley a 20 gal long, see if you can pick up a used HOB filter to add biospace and water flow, add plastic PVC instead of the mugs using more than 3 and finally cycle the QT as if it where a new tank instead of simpley seeding it. The cycle would allow for the proper colonization of bateria to easily deal with the wastes of one fish. The seeded sponge filter is a good option but should really be reserved as an emergency step and not for all set ups, at least until you get a better feel for how to get a successful handle on it. If the fish goes through without an ailment, you will most likely only need weekly water changes. If the fish needs treatment that would change though.

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Old 09-30-2004, 12:45 PM   #28
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Hi Steve,

Many thanks once again for your help. My tank is probably 20US gal, as it's 15 imp gal. I have a powerhead which I can switch on, but it created a lot of flow before so I turned it off. That said, my filter (Fluval) does actually create quite a bit of surface disruption and water movement in the tank.

I will cycle the QT - I'll use the sponges initially, and then drop a bit of food in each day?

Then I'll get rid of all the detritus after I've cycled and do a 30% waterchange, then am I sorted for my fish?

It's been treated with this TMC stuff and is now in a tank with other similarly-treated fish.

Would you still get the fish and QT it myself, or could the medicine have damaged the fish?
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Old 09-30-2004, 01:08 PM   #29
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I'm going to get some PVC piping too - is there any particular type you'd get, to avoid it releasing anything into the water etc. or will just any white PVC do from a DIY shop etc.?
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Old 09-30-2004, 01:14 PM   #30
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seems lots of people like the 45 or 90 degree bends, as it makes a little tunnel.. I've also seen some advice to sand off the writing that is on most PVC and rinse it first.. probably paranoid, but who knows?
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