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Old 09-22-2005, 12:58 AM   #1
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Why are my fish dying?

I have lost 2 fish in the 2 week. The one clown I had was doing fine then I saw him after the lights went out. He was pale and was just laying on the floor of the tank on his belly. He looked and was acting strange. The next morning I found him dead. I concluded that high CO2 to be the culperate. I hooked up my protein skimmer to an air vent outside and have increase my O2 levels greatly (noted by change in pH). Right now I have a clown goby that I am very sure is on his way out tonight. He used to have a great appetite but when I feed mysis (which he used to go crazy over) he just sits there. Now he is looking like he is on his last limb and is just sitting on a rock swaying slightly with the current. I found him in the corner of the tank on his side and then moved him to the rock close to a ph so he could get some better circulation.
He is very pale colored and is breathing about two breathes a sec (don't know if this is fast). The clown fish seemed to do the same thing.

He has been living in this set-up for almost a month. What could be the cause of this problem? I have checked all perameters and they are all 0ppm. My pH is 8.2 and I have done frequent water changes with outside aeration to increase O2. I don't see any spots or anything. I will check closely if this guy doesn't make it through the night.

I have one other fish (6lined wrasse) that is doing well(at least for now). Could I have a bacteria problem? OR could it be some kind of parasite? How can I correct this problem since I will be down to one fish? Should I get a UV sterilizer?

thanks,
Chris
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Old 09-22-2005, 10:00 AM   #2
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I would guess it is all related to your water parameters, with how low the temp and PH were....I would imagine it damaged most of your fish and they are dying off from it. Resulting from the improper parameters, other shifts may have taken place adding to the problem (small cycle from your dead fish, etc.).

You mention that you have raised the PH, to what? What is your current temperature?
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Old 09-22-2005, 10:14 AM   #3
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I do not have a temperature problem. I run a small fan during the day to keep the tank cooler. My tank ranges from 76-79. Currently it is 77.4 . The pH was 7.8 before I raised it permanatly. I kept adding pH buffer which raised the pH for about 2-3 days. I found out this isn't the solution to my problem. The alk was very high. Over the last week I have done about a 50% water change in order to reduce the alk. So three seperate water changes reduced the alk to under 6.0 meq/L . The current pH is 8.2 .

The clown goby died. He was eaten some by the shrimp and crabs but I am going to try and take a look at him. So all I am left with in 1 wrasse What does a low pH do to a fish? How can I be certain that is wasn't bacteria or velvet? As I said the fish seem fine until they die. This sucks because I have been trying to do everything the right way.
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Old 09-22-2005, 06:14 PM   #4
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Sorry, confused your history with a different thread....on a different forum.

Honestly, it may be difficult to ever figure it out. Doing a quick re-research on your history....there are multiple problems that could all have led to a bad environment. At least one of your fish carried a disease, your tank was very new when you added fish, your PH has been swinging (by using buffers to no avail...swings up and back down repeatedly), and your quarantine could have exposed them to toxic ammonia, etc (builds up quickly in a QT if not using cycled filter floss/media or doing daily water changes).

I would simply start over, the water changes are a good start. You mentioned before your turbos died but other snails are doing o.k...that is a positive. I would spend the next few months learning (get a good book, like The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Fenner, New Marine by Paletta, etc.) and practicing keeping a stable environment for your wrasse. Your knowledge and confidence will grow and your tank will get to mature.
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Old 09-22-2005, 06:32 PM   #5
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Quote:
He is very pale colored and is breathing about two breathes a sec (don't know if this is fast). The clown fish seemed to do the same thing.
Any other possible symptoms? Excess mucus, cloudy appearance, sunken belly, red patches/bloody areas or the like.

Really sounds like Brooklynella (or similar) might be a possibility but there is a lack of corroborating symptoms. Although constant changes in pH up or down for that matter can be lethal to a degree.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 09-22-2005, 07:06 PM   #6
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The blue tang had excess mucus. The clown seemed to possibly have small amount ,but it is hard to say because I believe some to be bubbles. The clown goby appeared normal. He had a small sunken stomach possibly since he hadn't eaten for a few days. If it is brooklynella what is it and how can I get rid of it? Does it depend on fish in the tank like other parasites?

When you say start over what exactly do you mean? How exactly would I start over?
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Old 09-22-2005, 07:29 PM   #7
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Steve's here and is a ringer for figuring out diseases. I'll let him continue his probing before I move ahead with any "starting over" info (which is not that involved nor complicated, so don't worry about it).
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Old 09-22-2005, 08:28 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by vipvenom
The blue tang had excess mucus. The clown seemed to possibly have small amount ,but it is hard to say because I believe some to be bubbles. The clown goby appeared normal. He had a small sunken stomach possibly since he hadn't eaten for a few days.
Tangs are not usually all that susceptible to Brooklynosis but can still catch it. The poblem here thus far is there are a few problems that have similar/common symptoms and the key is finding one symptom uncommon that would distinguish it from the other possibilities. Any additional insight/symptoms would definately be a plus.

Could you give a little history as to how the fish where added to the tank in sequence first to last, time frame between each and at what point the problems started?

Quote:
If it is brooklynella what is it and how can I get rid of it?
First let's make sure it is Brooklynella or a parasite at all. I would hate to have to take the shotgun approach. So far it is leading in the direction of Brook or Uronema but as I said there is a serious lack of corroborating symptoms. Depending on the history/additional symptoms you can relay, it might be easier to narrow down although not an exact science to be sure. The sooner you post back the better.

Quote:
Does it depend on fish in the tank like other parasites?
Yes but unlike the more common parasites encountered, it does not have an intermediate stage off the fish. Brook lives it's entire life cycle on the fish.

You will need a QT so I would suggest you get something in the works ASAP.

Cheers
Steve
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Old 09-22-2005, 08:48 PM   #9
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sick fish

Ok here goes. The first fish I purchaed were the blue tang and the clown fish. They were then put into QT (both in 10gal tank). About 5days later I got the wrasse and the clown goby. They then went into QT in a 5gal bucket. They were kept in for 2weeks (which I know is too short now but a little late for that).

The tang was fine for 2-3 weeks then I thought it got into some snail slime. After the 'slime' she was ok but then about a week later (maybe less) she just layed in her rock but would come out to eat. Then she wouldn't even come out to eat. I captured her in a net and put her into QT where she died the next day. She appeared to have slime/ mucus on her.

The clown was fine. He was acting normal. He had some small amounts of 'slime' possibly. Then that night he was pale. Acting weird by laying on his stomach against a rock. The clown never stopped swinging so this was odd. I had done a 5gal water change earlier in the day. The water was aerated with outside air since I was battling high CO2 indoors, the cause of my low pH. I had also hooked my skimmer up to outdside air source to help as well and it has. It does have some cabon filter around the intake. I found him dead lthe next morning.

The glown goby did not appear to have any problems. He hoped from rock to rock normally. He then just stopped eating. Last night he looked pale. I knew he was going to die and he did. He seemed to just kind of be powerless. Like he was suffocating but he wasn't because he lived for at least 4 hrs. I don't know that he was suffocating but he acted like a fish you catch and keep out of the water too long.

I am in the process of setting up a QT as well. So what do you think? Thanks for the help by the way.
Chris
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Old 09-22-2005, 10:18 PM   #10
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If that is a recent picture, it is not showing any physical signs of Brook, Uronema or Velvet. Escpecially considering the time frame that has passed. The area just beneath the pectoral fin seem a little odd though I cannot discerne if this is a trick of the lighting or not.

What I do see is typical evidence of C. irritans aka white spot. Did any of the other fish show this problem or just this one clown? Also, any white/stringy feces or bloating? The pic of the clown above actually looks like the bellies a little sunken?

Is the remaining wrasse showing any similar/new symptoms as that of the previous fish or nothing at all?

Cheers
Steve
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