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Old 01-14-2004, 11:36 AM   #11
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didn't treat with copper, I think I read that it kills inverts on this site. I used a chemical that my pet store guy recommended unfortunatley i can't remember the name it comes in a blue bottle and the chemical itself makes the water blue. You treat for 3 days. I also took the filters out and placed them in some saltwater so they wouldn't dry out. I started with the 2 clowns for about 3 weeks doing regular tests once everything spiked and then went back to normal I added the 2 damsels, basically rinse and repeat from there. Next was the blenny then the cleaner shrimp. The coral banded has been in there since the very begining and I also have had this blue hermit crab in there since the begining(i think he came in with the live rock). I got the cleaner because i thought he would be able to help my clown who i thought was sick, I never did see the cleaner do anything besides sit there and run away from the coral banded. I guess it's very possible that the coral banded killed him. He is the only thing doing well in the tank he has shed atleast once a month sometimes twice.
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Old 01-14-2004, 11:43 AM   #12
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I feel so bad killing all of these fish, the guys at work are now joking with me calling my fish tank the green mile.

*i feel like the little girl in Nemo who wouldn't stop shaking the bag


8O
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Old 01-14-2004, 11:54 AM   #13
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As for the med I have no idea luckly that has not become an issue for me *knockin on wood* so mabye someone here can help.. as for the dead cleaner shrimp honestly CBS have a real rep for killing other shrimp especially in such a small tank where there really is no where to run so I would say that that is quite a possibility.. Also are you sure that cleaner is dead?? I guess I should rephrase, are you sure that the cleaner did not just molt?? I know that my cleaners (1 cleaner 1 Bloodred) both molted about 2 weeks after I put them in... Was the body hard or just kinda hollow?? I know that my first instinct was holy poop my cleaner died but then I looked and it was just his shell .. within about 4 days he was out and about again picking at his shell ironically enough..Another thing is the acclimation with the shrimp.. I know that I am totally nuts about acclimation and I go way overbored (buy a bottle of wine and spend about 3 hrs on everything from fish to corals kinda make a night of it while I do some last minute research on the new critters just to make sure I have not missed anything the first time around) but inverts really need to be drip acclimated for quite a while (1-2hrs) even just moving him from the QT to the tank without reacclimating couldhave caused the problem..I will do all I can to help you with the shrimp as for the fish I really dont' know I only have two in my 55 and 1 has only been in about 4 days so I am really unsrue about giving advice about those..kinda new at the fish thing.

Doan
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Old 01-14-2004, 12:32 PM   #14
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Doaner hit the med thing on the head. Most meds indeed are not invert safe. I wouldn't try one even if it claimed it was. Also a big issue is mixing your water. Whenever you mix water it should be mixed for quite a while to allow the Ph to stable. You should also test your water to make sure there is no difference in temp, salinity, or Ph to your main tank. Just pouring it in without checking can shock your livestock. Find out what kind of medication you used if able.
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Old 01-14-2004, 12:58 PM   #15
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Ok it will have to wait till later since i'm at work now, but I will post it. Also the shrimp was dead for sure not just his shell unfortunetly
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Old 01-14-2004, 01:26 PM   #16
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ChrisCancell..


I just have another question for you.. What kinda water are you using?? Are you just adding salt mix to tap water or are you using RO if you are using tapwater are you treating it??? You know just trying to use the limited knowledge I have to help as much as I can..

Doan
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Old 01-14-2004, 02:15 PM   #17
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um by treating do you mean putting declor in? if so then yes. I am using tap water, should I be using ro water?
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Old 01-14-2004, 02:18 PM   #18
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I would say ditch thye damsel. It is probably causing more stress on the other fish than anything else. More stress leads to more disease! Also a coral banded will kill a cleaner if given the chance so that might have been the case there. I recomend not mixing other shrimops with coral baned unless the tank is fairly large. Scooter blennies (they are actually dragonets like the mandarins) only eat live foods and should be avoided unless your tank is at least 125 gallons and full of live rock.
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Old 01-14-2004, 02:23 PM   #19
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Well, the fact that you care is on your side. If you are willing to put in the research, which I think you are, I feel brighter days are ahead for your tank.

I would first purchase a good marine book, like The Conscientious Marine Aquarist by Robert Fenner. This will give you all the common (and specific as you grow) knowledge you need as well as being a handbook to refer to in times of question or crisis. This will allow you to break yourself free from having to rely on the LFS for knowledge, as IMO already they have led you down the wrong path.

My take on things:
Since we can't see your tank, or its history....this is all generalization based on what you have stated.

My guess is that the clown died from the resulting stress of going through the cycle. Fish should never be used, the cycle involves sharp peaks in both ammonia and nitrites...both which are lethal to fish. Ammonia burns and can literally melt gill filaments while nitrites bind with the hemoglobin in the blood blocking oxygen transer. The fish did not die during the cycle, but my guess is they were stressed and weakened enough that they became susceptible to the ich present in your tank.

The med you used is probably some product that contains the active ingredient Methylene Blue. As the others have stated, it is not safe for inverts and either that or the CBS is most likely the cause for the demise of the cleaner shrimp. The CBS may or may not make it depending on how it was affected. I would get a polyfilter and run it on the tank to remove as much of the med as possible. In the future, fish should be isolated to quarantine tanks for treatment. For that matter, any new addition should be quarantined first as well. It is very simple and cheap to do even in an apartment (simple enough that it makes no sense for anyone NOT to do it!) and will greatly reduce any possibility of having a malady enter the main tank.

For now, I would not be concerned with adding more fish to the tank. I would be more concerned about researching water chemistry and other basic saltwater husbandry and implementing those practices. Your maintenance schedule sounds good as long as you are doing them in the manner the others explained. Once you are comfortable with the happenings in the tank (your tank will let you know by being stable and nice looking), then I would consider purchasing a new fish, quarantining them, and introducing them to your new environment. I would not go over 3 small fish in a 20g so you are actually alread at your max.

The scooter blenny is tough to keep. They require meaty fare, and many feed mostly on the pods in the tank. Yours is pretty small to be able to provide enough, especially after being nuked by the med. Try offering enriched brine (even alive if you have to) to get it feeding and then move on to enriched mysis, zooplankton, etc.
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Old 01-14-2004, 02:29 PM   #20
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WHEW!!!!!! I was just trying to hold the fort till the experts showed up and the cavalry finally came!!!! Trust me Chris, Hoops and Darin are the pros...I did the best I could but really those are the two you want to listen too heck I even learned something good.. I knew nitrites and ammonia were bad but I never really knew why and no I do..

Doan
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