Yellow Tang Appears Sick / Starfish is Injured

[LJREASI]

. Help Please. I am a new saltwater tank owner x 2-months. I have a 30gallon marine tank with 5 small fish (2 damsels, 1 tang, 1 foxface, 1 clown, & 2 starfish). Recently I've noted two events:
My yellow tang has developed what appear to be red spots on the body near the fins (almost like internal hemorrhages). The tang is acting fine and eating, however, I'm not sure what the diagnosis is or what the treatment is? I had my water checked at the store - all was well except for slightly low pH 7.8. That is being corrected at this time. I started adding UltraCure BX Gel-Tek to the food per my aquarium store.
Has anyone seen this or know how to treat the condition? Your advice would be greatly appreciated.
The second event - one of my starfish seems to have "broken" part of one of its limbs. I don't know how this occurred, however, I imagine it will grow back. Is this common?
Thanks.

 

[quarryshark]

First of all, welcome to AA!!!
We will try and give you some help here, but you have some fundamental problems right from the start and these may be the reason for the ailments.
What are the ammonia and nitrate reading. I see the PH is low, 7.8 is low and is at least part of the problem. Need to get that PH slowly raised to the 8.0-8.4 range.
You main problem is that the tank is way overstocked. The tang needs a system at least 2 1/2 times this size for starter. Overcrowding a tank like this will cause a variety of water quality problems and lead to losses. The Tang sounds like it is suffering from environmental stress already. Poor water quality may be the star's problem as well. Inverts are very sensitive to poor water quality and he may be starting to fall apart.
The general rule of thumb is 2" of adult size fish per 10 gallons of water. My advise is to return the tang and one of the other fish. That will help things right off the bat.
Not trying to be harsh, just giving it to you straight. Your LFS should have advised you in the same manner.
I would also get your own water test kits for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate and PH for starters. These are the basics everyone should have. I wouldn't rely just on your LFS to monitor your water quality.

 

[Titandriver1]

I believe one of my tangs has the same symptoms (red spots at the base of the fins). I have two tangs in my tank, and it's only one of the tangs that's showing the symptoms. I was away for a couple of days, and when I returned I noticed the spots. I tested my water and everything is fine except for the ammonia which tested at 0.25, but is usually at 0. I assume the ammonia is what is causing the problem since the tangs have been in the tank for over 2 months and none of the other fish have shown any signs of problems. If anyone has any additional insight comments would be greatly appreciated. :?

 

[quarryshark]

First, welcome to AA!!
Second, what is your tank size, other animals, filtration method, etc?
This info would be a big help.

 

[Titandriver1]

I've got a 125g with a wet dry filter, protein skimmer, but no live rock(haven't had the money to invest in it). Crushed coral for substrate. I've got 2 yellow tangs, 1 coral beauty, 3 blue damsels, 1 yellow tail damsel. Just realized that I'm missing a 3 striped damsel--probably the reason for my small ammonia spike. No invertebrates. Besides the lack of live rock, do you see any inherent problems?

 

[Titandriver1]

I'm relatively new to all of this, my tank has only been established for about a year. Any suggestions/advice is welcome.

 

[quarryshark]

What is your PH? What do you feed the tang?

 

[Salttanker]

As QS said, pH is definitely a factor. 7..8 is way too low. Tangs are sensitive to low pH. These are usually the first fish that show signs of poor water quality, low pH, and poor diet.
One thing that I have learned about Tangs is when you have a sealed top it can also cause pH swings creating the red blotches. If you have a glass top, I would remove it. This will assist you in your troubleshooting.
Do you have lr? Tangs really benefit and thrive when there is lr present. They tend to graze all day in search of food. One thing that might help you at this point is to soak the Tangs food in Selcon or Zoe. Adding vitamins to the Tangs diet will help build his immune system.
Also as QS pointed out, 30g is too small for this specimen. Unfortunately, most lfs wont' tell you what size tanks are appropriate for fish, but we do have a lot of information on this site that will be helpful. Sorry.

Mike

 

[Titandriver1]

My pH is at 8.3. The tangs graze on seaweed in clips in the tank, but also eat flakes and frozen foods.

 

[Titandriver1]

On the topic of liverock--I was told by the lfs that adding live rock to an established tank would cause a spike in ammonia. I didn't have the money to add the liverock when I started the tank, and now that it is established with fish in it, I'm afraid that if I add liverock now I'm going to lose some fish. Is this accurate, or were they just trying to sell me liverock by telling me that I could only add it at the start?

 

[quarryshark]

You could (and should IMO) add live rock to your system. You would either have to buy precured rock, or cure it in a separate container before placing it in your system.
LR would be very benificial for your system.

 

[malkore]

I agree with Kurt on the live rock. You could check out liverock.com - they have rock that often only needs minimal curing, plus its great looking rock! a rubbermaid container with saltwater, and a power head would allow you to cure it a couple weeks, testing ammonia/nitrite, then add to your tank when it's 'safe'.

 

[Titandriver1]

I'll have to do that then. They had given me the impression that I could only add the live rock at start up if I didn't want to kill my fish. I guess I'll just have to add it piece by piece over a period of time and keep a very close eye on the ammonia level while adding it.

 

[steve-s]

Curing Live Rock? I didn't even know it was sick!!

Cheers
Steve

 

[Florida8]

Well, I might be wrong, but I always added single hand picked pieces of LR one at a time from the LFS as I could afford it when I set up my 1st tank, one pc per week... straight from their tank to mine and never got a spike from it. You could add it slowly like that and you should be fine. Maybe someone will correct me if that's bad info.

But if you can afford it now, it's very very beneficial to your tank and fish no matter how you have to swing it.

Warmly,
Kimberly

 

[melosu58]

Cure the rock before you put it in your tank. Buy yourself a Plastic Trash can and put your Live rock in there with salt water over the top. You might want to scrub the rock first to take any die off off the rock. You`ll probably need a heater and airstone also. You`ll probably have to let it sit for a couple weeks with some water changes in there. Once it cycles you can add it to your tank without the chance of an Amonnia spike. I hope I said it all but there is many links out there that tell you how to cure live rock. Just don`t do it in your tank. If I left something out I`m sure the advisors will tell us. Good Luck

 

[steve-s]

Well, I might be wrong, but I always added single hand picked pieces of LR one at a time from the LFS as I could afford it when I set up my 1st tank, one pc per week... straight from their tank to mine and never got a spike from it. You could add it slowly like that and you should be fine. Maybe someone will correct me if that's bad info.

I wouldn't call it bad info, it just needs a little further explaination. If the LFS has had the rock for 6-8 weeks already, there's a great chance the rock will have no die off affecting the tank. Especially with the quick transport time. If newly arrived rock, it needs time to cure before placing in the tank/purchasing.

I will say though that you should never go on the word of the LFS unless you have a solid long standing relationship. If you are not sure, don't risk it.

Cheers
Steve

 

[Titandriver1]

Thanks for all the advice on the live rock. You all have really helped me understand what I need to do and look out for. I guess I got us a bit off topic by my questions about live rock, sorry! LJREASI, have you tested your tank for ammonia? My ammonia level was a bit high and I was curious if you might have the same condition.

 

[Titandriver1]

I spoke to a guy at the lfs who suggested that the red spots/streaks may be a sign of hemorrhagic septicemia. He recommended treating with furazone green, so I'm in the process of doing that now. I've moved the tangs to a quarantine tank, and after 2 full days they appear to getting better. It's a little hard to tell though now that the water is green.