3 fish dead…what am I doing wrong??

[PollyPanda]

I am a newbie at this and as I'm buying my fish in Hong Kong and can't understand the language am having a very hard time figuring things out.

I started off with two fish watonai (from a carnival 1/2 year ago) and blue guppy which got along very well and one vacuum fish, and a black goldfish in a 2.5 gallon tank.
The black goldfish got curved spine disease and died, replaced it and that one died. I then realised I should be doing more frequent water changes. After replacing it soon after it happened to another which died.

Then I replaced it with a Siamese Fighting fish (shop keeper obviously didn't tell me it would be bad to mix these with my blue guppy) and 4 goldfish! (I realise now they were overcrowded and I didn't know to acclimate them first) so just threw them in.
I suddenly noticed my blue guppy looking tattered and finally saw that the Siamese was attacking it. I removed it instantly but, the damage had been done to it's tail. I also noticed that the Watonai had a white air blister type thing on its tail and it's gills were looking reddish on one side. Then I noticed the other 4 gold fish nipping at the Watonai so I removed them all as well.
I have been changing the water 20-50% daily since for the past 3 days adding a teaspoonful of Aquarium salt and a chlorine neutraliser when I do the changes.

Symptoms:
Blue guppy: colour faded to more white around head
although it is swimming around well and there seems to be black streaks on the body although maybe I hadn't noticed those before?

Watonai which has very red gills on one side and has been laying at the bottom of the tank. It will still occasionally swim around rapidly and still want to eat but, mostly stays at the bottom. it worries me because this is how all the other fish have gone. Is it stressed? Is it rotting from the blue guppy? It will still swim up for fish food which are tiny balls sorry don't know the name.
I don't have a nitrate/nitrite/ammonia tester but, I should buy one immediately.

I want to quarantine it but, the blue guppy and watonai are inseparable and they would probably die of sadness if I did. No medications and don't know what to get.
I would do anything not to see another one die. Please help!
.
I have gravel at the bottom of the tank, one ship decoration
I don't know what the filter system is…is there somewhere I can look up the types?

should I keep changing the tank water daily? Twice daily?
Should I take out the gravel and rinse it? They look a bit dirty.
Should I feed a pea and not feed as much during this time?
Should I keep the filter off? Is it just stressed?

Thanks so much in advance!

I've added photo's of it all on my profile

 

[Delapool]

Hi there,

So one guppy and goldfish?

It all sounds like water conditions. The black streaks could be ammonia burns (or bacterial infection but I'd suspect the water). Does your water conditioner detoxify ammonia?

You mentioned filtration is off?

Yes, a liquid based test kit is essential. Top of the list. Also small tanks are difficult to keep. No plans to upgrade?

On iPhone do can't see photos and have just gone off text.

 

[PollyPanda]

Hi Delapool,

Thanks for your reply!

One guppy and goldfish and that Vacuum fish is still there.

My AA Chlorine Neutral says it neutralises and instantly removes chlorine from tap water and the rest is in Chinese.
Filtration is on

What do you mean small tanks are difficult to keep? I thought it would be best because our home is so small but, does it kill off fish faster? How big should I upgrade to?

So just noticing that the guppy is looking a bit bluer on the tail again and sort of almost looks like it is growing back. It's swimming around happily but, the Watonai gills and fins seem very red! It almost appears like you can see inside the entire gill. It is still lying on the gravel but, again when I open the top swims around fiercely.

I am wondering if I should remove some gravel and clean it tomorrow?
Should I take off the bottom part of filter and scrub it?
Should I do more than one water change per day?

Oh and am wondering now that I read about Aquarium salt should be dissolved first before putting in the water that perhaps the blister on the Watonai is a burn blister?

Thanks in advance!

 

[Dragon.goby]

Also you are over stocking to the extreme. Goldfish need at least 30 gallons. Guppies are suggested to be in schools of 4 or more in 10 gallons.

 

[Delapool]

Small tanks are more sensitive to outside temperature and anything that goes wrong inside a small tank spreads faster. Everything has to be just so. For example in my 150gal a fish could pass away and the system will cope. In my 5 gal a sick fish can't go anywhere, infection spreads faster and a dead fish would poison the entire tank. A 5 gal I'm finding is possible for maybe a fighter or several small fish. I think a 10gal is really as small as you want to go but if space is tight than a 5 gal is the lowest. So yes I would say a larger tank will have fish with longer lives.

I would gravel vac the gravel but not take it out and clean it. That will just disturb the good bacteria growing in there.

Filter - you can clean the sponge in clean tank water or tap water that has been water conditioned (no chlorine either way so you don't kill off bacteria) and then the bio-media I would leave unless really gunked up. Most filters have filter wool or sponge for mechanical filtration and then bio-media for lots of good bacteria to grow on (eg ceramic rings or bio-balls). Can you send details on your filter? That's the other thing - I find small tanks have small filters which can be less than ideal in set-up.

Fish - I'm sorry but as mentioned above you are dreadfully over-stocked. Nothing I can suggest will fix that. The goldfish needs to go. At best I'd stock two male or feamale guppies in that tank. I looked at this on a couple of other posts and nothing can replace tank volume.

I've posted two links below. One to get started and one (hopefully working) that you can use for tank/fish/filter stocking.

http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forum...ou-get-started-with-your-aquarium-154837.html

AqAdvisor - Intelligent Freshwater Tropical Fish Aquarium Stocking Calculator and Aquarium Tank/Filter Advisor

I would just do one water change a day. It is likely that your water conditioner is fixing chlorine but not ammonia. Seachem prime for example will detoxify both.

Salt should be dissolved first. It will protect against high nitrites but I've never had it cause blisters. Usually upsets fish balance first.

If you want post a picture of the filter and fish and we can check out.

But if you can a larger tank to 10 gal and a water test kit (liquid not strips) would be urgent. Water changes as well should roughly match the tank temp so not to stress the fish much. I'm sure I've missed questions, please post anything extra.

 

[lectraplayer]

Get you a gravel vac and use it at every water change. It will probably suck out most of your problem.

While your current tank is doable, a larger tank around 20g is better to start with. Bigger tanks can withstand things going awry better than a small tank. You have to be on your A game with small tanks, especially below 10g.

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH Fierce using Tapatalk

 

[PollyPanda]

Hi guys so I noticed that the blue guppy is looking better and better but, the orange Watonai is still spending most of the time down on the gravel and just starting to notice very tiny white bubbles on the tail on top of the reddened gills on one side…is this fin rot?
Should I go out and buy a larger tank and transport them or will this just mess the whole eco system up and put them in shock?
I'm changing the water 30% daily and doing the gravel cleaning but,

1. after gravel cleaning I still see a few things that look dirty floating around is this normal?

2. After even trying to melt the aquarium salt in really hot water it doesn't melt so I just inserted it in after cooling of course. How do you melt this stuff?

3. should I stop feeding for a few days will this help or kill them?

Thanks! I need to save this Watonai!

 

[Delapool]

Hi guys so I noticed that the blue guppy is looking better and better but, the orange Watonai is still spending most of the time down on the gravel and just starting to notice very tiny white bubbles on the tail on top of the reddened gills on one side…is this fin rot?

Should I go out and buy a larger tank and transport them or will this just mess the whole eco system up and put them in shock?

I'm changing the water 30% daily and doing the gravel cleaning but,



1. after gravel cleaning I still see a few things that look dirty floating around is this normal?



2. After even trying to melt the aquarium salt in really hot water it doesn't melt so I just inserted it in after cooling of course. How do you melt this stuff?



3. should I stop feeding for a few days will this help or kill them?



Thanks! I need to save this Watonai!

Yes, definitely need a bigger tank. You can fast-track a cycle using filter media from an established tank. How big a tank can you get? Second-hand could be worth looking into as well. Always get the biggest tank you can. If funds are tight than a plastic tub will work for a bit.

It could be fin rot or it might be natural. Keep up the water changes.

Gravel cleaning will stir up a bit of muck. It will settle again or the filter will get it.

How much salt are you dosing? I'd say the water just can't dissolve anymore.

How often are you feeding? You should be able to skip a day easily as sick fish won't eat much.

Next problem is heating. I'm not sure what tank temp would be there? Guppies are tropical fish whereas goldfish are more cold water. A friend has his goldfish outside (getting to less than 5C here) whereas for my tropicals I'm thinking of getting another heater to keep it at 24C.

 

[PollyPanda]

Hi I definitely think it's ammonia poisoning because I see black dots and red gill on the other one.
Should I use stress zyme?
They seem to have gotten ever so slightly better but what if stress zyme is bad?

 

[Delapool]

Stress zyme should go ok. I've used it and not noticed any troubles. I tend to only dose for the water change as the bacteria will build up. My canister filter is transparent and I've noticed some improvement using it. I tend to add it when the canister filter has just been cleaned to kick-start it. However it doesn't do much for ammonia already in the tank. Nitrifying bacteria are autotrophic where as stress zyme contains more heterotrophic bacteria. How long as your tank been running?

I would pick up a water conditioner like seachem prime or api ammo lock that can detoxify ammonia. It must say it can do this on the label. Simply binding chlorine or chloramine is only halfway there. However these only work for 24-48 hrs after which they assume the filter bacteria will be well on their way to converting ammonia to nitrite to nitrate. The bacteria can still use the bound ammonia (now ammonium), just a bit slower.

I would tend to agree - its all in your water conditions rather than an infection. At best I can only hope to keep the fish alive, they won't thrive in that tank.

Heterotrophic Bacteria and Their Practical Application in a Freshwater Aquarium

Water conditioners - The Free Freshwater and Saltwater Aquarium Encyclopedia Anyone Can Edit - The Aquarium Wiki

 

[PollyPanda]

Thanks for the reply....not sure what most of it meant and need to google most words?I don't know if they'll have all that but I'll check. My tank started in February this year.
I've done everything wrong in the book and wish they came with a fish 101 for dummies!
I cleaned the 2 gallon tank once monthly and over fed because I thought they were hungry all the time!!


So drastic measures....now
Should I buy a larger tank tomorrow and transfer them or is that shocking?
Some people say 100% water change...should I do that tomorrow?


So far there's one guppy, one watonai and one extremely shy vacuum fish: should I remove the vacuum guy out to help
The overcrowding issue?
I will check for the ones you mentioned and see if they sell it out here. For now I can only do stress zyme because that's all I could find


Thank you guys! This is a great support system!

 

[Lee315]

How long have you had any fish in the tank?

The logic behind a larger tank, is in a two gallon tank anything you introduce will affect the chemical balance more than a larger tank. Because the contaminates with be more diluted with more water. That's why larger tanks are easier to keep.

 

[Delapool]

I think your tank may have not cycled completely. If so continue your water changes, do not mess with the filters, as long as they have flow your are good.

Unfortunately this a 2.5 gal tank with a goldfish plus other fish in it. I agree the cycle is not complete but would never expect it to come good. It's way overstocked. Some things are just not meant to be.

Edit - sorry missed the edit(?) I think.

 

[Delapool]

Thanks for the reply....not sure what most of it meant and need to google most words?I don't know if they'll have all that but I'll check. My tank started in February this year.
I've done everything wrong in the book and wish they came with a fish 101 for dummies!
I cleaned the 2 gallon tank once monthly and over fed because I thought they were hungry all the time!!


So drastic measures....now
Should I buy a larger tank tomorrow and transfer them or is that shocking?
Some people say 100% water change...should I do that tomorrow?


So far there's one guppy, one watonai and one extremely shy vacuum fish: should I remove the vacuum guy out to help
The overcrowding issue?
I will check for the ones you mentioned and see if they sell it out here. For now I can only do stress zyme because that's all I could find


Thank you guys! This is a great support system!

Hey, no worries - been there as well. I found finding a good fish pet shop helps. They are a business but a good one will help you. I tend to just go in through 3 or 4 of my favourite ones and just look around and check out stuff. Then I go research before buying, etc, etc.

It's a tough call but imo I would get the tank set up and leave for a day to settle and age. Also new gravel tends to be cloudy so it can be water fill, run overnight and then replace water (and check filters are not clogged up).

The bacteria in a bottle is mainly at best helping along the process. All the bacteria you need will come in naturally but to cycle a new tank fully can be 6 weeks. As your filter and tank has been going for a bit, we can speed this up.

I would say get tank, filters, gravel and water test kit. Plus anything else you want. When the fish go in we want to also add the gravel out of the old tank. Also the filter sponge/biomedia to the new filter. This will get the bacteria from your old tank spreading into the new tank the fastest.

Water changes - I'd say 75%.

Off to bed, post anything I've missed and someone will know

Edit - what size tank can you do? That will control stocking.

 

[lectraplayer]

I know the feeling too. With those couple fish, I would just go crazy knocking the mud off of everything and daily 50% water changes daily. Test like mad season for ammonia. When ammonia levels start getting down, you can back off on the water changes. Remember to vacuum each time and clean the filters.

When somebody says Google something, just search and do research. That's what Google does.

Sent from my ALCATEL ONE TOUCH Fierce using Tapatalk

 

[PollyPanda]

Oh no! This morning I've noticed small tiny white bumps on the watonai!!!
Could this now be?
white spot disease”, also known as “Ich” or “Ick”.
Ok few more questions...

Since they're lying in bottom of tank still going up to feed....should I buy one of those oxygen generating stones that give off more oxygen since they're at bottom or does the filter do enough?
I'm not convinced my filter sucks up enough dirt!

Thank you all! If anything I'm learning so much!

 

[Delapool]

LOL - fish keeping - a relaxing and rewarding pastime of looking at test tube results and web searches for weird words!

Can you post a pic of the white bumps? Where are they on the fish? White spot (ich) will look like white salt grains and the fish may flash. Will spread to other fish. However gold fish can get white bumps on the head, around the gills and on the tail that are ok. I need to go and look this up myself as haven't kept goldfish in years.

Most O2 comes in at the surface so as long as the filter is agitating the water surface it should be ok. I do like air-stones so if you like them, grab one. The air pump can be noisy is the only other thing if the tank is in a tv room, etc.

The filter should clear the tank water over-night after feeding is a rule of thumb I work with. Fine dirt can be tricky. I run two filters now just so I can experiment with different filter set-ups but I'm a bit loath to change anything at the moment and risk the good bacteria. If you see a filter you like, post a thread on it to see what others think.

Edit - can't find the thread I wanted on goldfish. Another way is to search through old threads and see if anything matches up if they are too quick for a pic.

 

[PollyPanda]

Oh how do I post pictures?

 

[PollyPanda]

[/IMG]View attachment 240455View attachment 240456View attachment 240457

Photos.... They are best friends… need to save one!
I've changed the water,
turkey basted the floating stuff,
added oxygen stone, temperature reader,
added clean fresh 75% water with chlorine remover and nitrate remover, dissolved aquarium salt, changed the filter padding stuff, changed those circle things in filter....
Used stress zyme
Used this thing called 'fish saver' the pet shop gave them to me but, can't read instructions so it's very frustrating!
I saw that my tank is actually a Pano12 3.2 gallon tank and now I only have the Watonai around 4 cm? and blue guppy inside…both very small.

The blue guppy is swimming around frantically perhaps with happiness, the colour is renewing it seems, the tail looks less shredded?

The watonai is still very still and hiding inside the shipwreck decoration��
I've removed the vacuum fish because I thought it may be preying on watonai! And noticed more lesions getting a bit more torn from the Vacuum fish which was hanging out outside of the shipwreck which was very unusual!
Fed them peas then removed the pea leftovers right away

The watonai moves a bit once in awhile but not sure if that's a good thing or if it's at it's last run
Water looks crystal clean!

Now just waiting and waiting! Very stressful indeed!

 

[Delapool]

Drat - I'm having trouble opening the pics. Are they opening ok at your end?