Another Bloated Betta

[greylady]

Sorry to start a new thread on an old subject but I typed this all out one already on a thread that was already discussing this topic and when I was finished it said I couldn't post due to the thread being old...so here I go again.

Background: 1 white betta, Gandalf. "Bookshelf" tank from petco 24" long, 8" wide, 9" high. Set up 2 months ago, Carbi Sea black Instant Aquarium substrate. 3 live plants, one large hollow log for him to swim through/hide in. This was also bought at a fish store, it's synthetic, not real wood. I sanded it down to make sure there were no sharp edges. No other fish in tank. The filter came with the tank and has no brand name, sizes, numbers or any other identifying marks so I cannot tell you anything else about it other than it does have a flow adjuster and it is set to the lowest flow. There is no heater but I am in a very warm climate and the thermometer shows 78 all the time. I have no problem buying a heater if it is recommended. I used a water conditioner that said "instantly makes water safe for bettas" when I set the tank up using tap water. I can't give you the brand as I used it up doing the last 15% water change and threw out the bottle. I test the water every 2-3 days and the ammonia, nitrite and nitrate always read 0, the PH reads 7.4. I do 15% water change once a week.

Problem... all was well until about 3 wks ago. I'm pretty sure he was overfed while I was away, even though I stressed he was to be fed 1-2 pellets in am and 1 in pm and that was it. I came home to find him very bloated. I fasted him for 24 hrs then did the blanched peeled pea trick, he was better then next day, back to normal. I then gave him one pellet, softened for 10 mins in some of his aquarium water, 12 hours later he was completely bloated up again and couldn't stay down, kept bobbing to the top and laying on his side. I did the pea trick again, then fasted for 2 days. Then tried giving him one freeze dried blood worm after softening that in his tank water, again, 12 hours later, huge bloat! This has become a vicious circle. Every time I give him the slightest bit of food he bloats up. I can't believe Gandalf has to live like this, one pellet or bloodworm every other day and bloated to the point of not being able to swim on the other days? There has to be a fix for this.

I've read so many websites in the last three weeks that I am totally confused. Some say salt, some say can't use salt with live plants, some say medicate, some say don't. Some say it's dropsy, I don't think it is because it goes away if I don't feed him. Some say switch to flakes, some say flakes are not good, some say give brine shrimp, some say no due to parasites....

This post has gotten huge so I'll stop, please can someone help?

 

[absolutangel04]

Sorry about your troubles! Well, it's not dropsy. It is definitely diet related. I suggest trying the fast/pea treatment several times in a row before giving him any other food. The freeze dried bood worms will still expand even after being softened in the tank water, so I suggest not using them anymore for this particular betta. Once you issue clears up more though, you can try it again if you would like to.

 

[smomus]

What are your water parameters? Do you test? If not I highly recommend getting the API master test kit.

How often do you change water? Most people here use and recommend prime dechlorinator, but I use API stress coat.

What pellets are you feeding?

 

[greylady]

Sorry about your troubles! Well, it's not dropsy. It is definitely diet related. I suggest trying the fast/pea treatment several times in a row before giving him any other food. The freeze dried bood worms will still expand even after being softened in the tank water, so I suggest not using them anymore for this particular betta. Once you issue clears up more though, you can try it again if you would like to.

Thanks for the reply! I have been doing the fast/pea thing for three weeks now but it's always the same, he eats, he bloats, he fasts he gets a pea, he gets better, he gets one pellet, he bloats...it's crazy. I have not given him the bloodworm except that one time. I have no problem throwing them out if he can't tolerate them, I only bought them because I kept reading how it was important to "vary" the diet...

The last time I gave him anything was 1 softened pellet the day before yesterday at 10am, by 10pm he was bloated. I haven't given him anything else yet and he seems better but not himself, not as active, mostly he just lays on a plant or hides behind the filter, that is until he sees me, then he goes to the opening waiting for food. I feel so bad, poor little guy has had a total of 2 pellets and 1 pea in 7 days. Any other thoughts?

 

[jlbfish]

What kind of pellets are they?

 

[greylady]

What are your water parameters? Do you test? If not I highly recommend getting the API master test kit.

How often do you change water? Most people here use and recommend prime dechlorinator, but I use API stress coat.

What pellets are you feeding?

Yes I have an API Freshwater Master Test Kit, I've been testing every week since I set it up in early March. The tests always read zero ammonia, 0 nitrite and 0 nitrate, the PH reads 7.6, which I've read is a little high for betta's but I also read messing around with the PH is more harmful then letting the fish "adjust" to the natural PH.

I do 25% or so water change once a week using tap water and water conditioner to remove the chlorine. I set up the new water the night before so it has time to get to the same temp before changing the water.

The pellets are Aqueon Betta Food

 

[absolutangel04]

Thanks for the reply! I have been doing the fast/pea thing for three weeks now but it's always the same, he eats, he bloats, he fasts he gets a pea, he bloats...it's crazy. I have not given him the bloodworm except that one time. I have no problem throwing them out if he can't tolerate them, I only bought them because I kept reading how it was important to "vary" the diet...

The last time I gave him anything was 1 softened pellet the day before yesterday at 10am, by 10pm he was bloated. I haven't given him anything else yet and he seems better but not himself, not as active, mostly he just lays on a plant or hides behind the filter, that is until he sees me, then he goes to the opening waiting for food. I feel so bad, poor little guy has had a total of 2 pellets and 1 pea in 7 days. Any other thoughts?

He bloat after eating the pea? Wow. My guess is that there is something inside him causing a blockage so food isn't passing through properly and backs up causing the bloat. You could still try skipping the pellets and doing just fasting and peas for a bit. My next suggestion is an epsom salt bath. I have not ever had to do one, but I have heard good results from doing it to relieve constipation.
As for the blood worms, varied diet is good. Frozen blood worms are better because they don't expand the same freeze dried ones do. That said, I have used the freeze dried bloodworms and never had an issue if I softened them and fed sparingly, but they do still expand so if this betta is sensitive, they probably aren't a good fit.

 

[greylady]

He bloat after eating the pea? Wow. My guess is that there is something inside him causing a blockage so food isn't passing through properly and backs up causing the bloat. You could still try skipping the pellets and doing just fasting and peas for a bit. My next suggestion is an epsom salt bath. I have not ever had to do one, but I have heard good results from doing it to relieve constipation.
As for the blood worms, varied diet is good. Frozen blood worms are better because they don't expand the same freeze dried ones do. That said, I have used the freeze dried bloodworms and never had an issue if I softened them and fed sparingly, but they do still expand so if this betta is sensitive, they probably aren't a good fit.

ok, I will defiantely throw away the blood worms. I must have mis-spoke, or mis-typed and did not state that correctly. He bloats after having one pellet, even softened, and he did the one time I gave him the bloodworm, even after soaking it. The pea unbloates him... but only until I give him a pellet again...

How many days should I fast him?
Should I continue to give him the peas? If so for how long?

 

[greylady]

What kind of pellets are they?

Aqueon Betta Food, is that good? I read all the ingrediants on all the food in the petstore and this one had the most protein (37% fishmeal)

Do you think flakes would be easier for him to digest? Is there enough vitamins and protein in flakes? I heard flakes weren't that great so I haven't tired them.

 

[smomus]

Aqueon Betta Food, is that good? I read all the ingrediants on all the food in the petstore and this one had the most protein (37% fishmeal)

Do you think flakes would be easier for him to digest? Is there enough vitamins and protein in flakes? I heard flakes weren't that great so I haven't tired them.

Oh, ha! I was thinking one of those bigger sinking pellets. Glad that isn't the case.
Imo, I would feed him veggies and blood worms (frozen not freeze dried) for the next week or so. Then try a pellet. I wonder about soaking the food in garlic? I've never done this but hear it has benefits. Maybe some one else can chime in if this might help or not.

 

[smomus]

Oh and also, my ph tests above 8, sometimes as high as 8.4. In the last month or so my male has grown his severely fin nipped fins almost half an inch. So as long as the ph is stable, don't be concerned.

 

[absolutangel04]

ok, I will defiantely throw away the blood worms. I must have mis-spoke, or mis-typed and did not state that correctly. He bloats after having one pellet, even softened, and he did the one time I gave him the bloodworm, even after soaking it. The pea unbloates him... but only until I give him a pellet again...

How many days should I fast him?
Should I continue to give him the peas? If so for how long?

Ok. I am with you now. I would fast him for a day and then give him a pea, then fast, then pea. You can add also add salt to the water with live plants, but I suggest starting out at half strength and seeing how the plants react. Most plants will be ok with salt for a limited time. They will start to shrivel if it's too much salt, but should recover quickly once the salt is cut back. Still, try half strength first.
Then try a pellet again. If you can crush up the pellet so he is not getting thew whole thing, that might help too. The theory here is that more peas will help move along whatever is blocking his digestion. If that still doesn't work, try a different food. You are correct that in general flakes aren't good betta food. You can try the granules, I have had luck with them before. But first, I would try just crushing the pellets so they are smaller. I did that once and I put the pellet in a baggy and hit it with a hammer to break it in half.

 

[greylady]

Oh, ha! I was thinking one of those bigger sinking pellets. Glad that isn't the case.
Imo, I would feed him veggies and blood worms (frozen not freeze dried) for the next week or so. Then try a pellet. I wonder about soaking the food in garlic? I've never done this but hear it has benefits. Maybe some one else can chime in if this might help or not.

Thanks, no they are just small pellets and I do soak them first to help soften them.

The problem is not relieving the bloating, the pea seems to do that, it's the fact that he bloats everytime he has even the smallest amount of food, ie one small pellet. He goes completely skinny again once he has the pea or I don't feed him for a couple days. I'm just trying to figure out how or what to feed him so that he gets enough vitamins and protein without bloating up and having issues swimming every time he eats... I've never heard of the garlic thing...but I'm new at this so...

thanks for the help

 

[greylady]

Ok. I am with you now. I would fast him for a day and then give him a pea, then fast, then pea. You can add also add salt to the water with live plants, but I suggest starting out at half strength and seeing how the plants react. Most plants will be ok with salt for a limited time. They will start to shrivel if it's too much salt, but should recover quickly once the salt is cut back. Still, try half strength first.
Then try a pellet again. If you can crush up the pellet so he is not getting thew whole thing, that might help too. The theory here is that more peas will help move along whatever is blocking his digestion. If that still doesn't work, try a different food. You are correct that in general flakes aren't good betta food. You can try the granules, I have had luck with them before. But first, I would try just crushing the pellets so they are smaller. I did that once and I put the pellet in a baggy and hit it with a hammer to break it in half.

Ok, I will do the fast then pea then fast thing for a week or so, do you think that will be enough time?

What is the reason for salt? I keep reading people do that but what really is it for? How does it help the fish?

I think we are talking about two different kinds of pellets, these are smaller then his eye, very tiny. that's why I soften it in water first, I put one pellet in a small glass, add some of his tank water, let it sit for 10 mins, then pour it back into the tank. The pellet gets very mushy and breaks down into something more the consistency of dust particles floating through the water, honestly I don't know how he's surviving on so little food at this point.

Thanks for your help

 

[smomus]

I'm not sure how the salt works exactly. It is the same idea as gargling with salt water for a sore throat or after having wisdom teeth removed. Somehow it is because the bad bacteria cannot thrive with salt.
The garlic has been said that it helps with building the immune system, from the inside. Like I said tho, i've never tried and don't know the specifics.
Anyway, good luck and let us know how it goes!

 

[absolutangel04]

Ok, I will do the fast then pea then fast thing for a week or so, do you think that will be enough time?

What is the reason for salt? I keep reading people do that but what really is it for? How does it help the fish?

I think we are talking about two different kinds of pellets, these are smaller then his eye, very tiny. that's why I soften it in water first, I put one pellet in a small glass, add some of his tank water, let it sit for 10 mins, then pour it back into the tank. The pellet gets very mushy and breaks down into something more the consistency of dust particles floating through the water, honestly I don't know how he's surviving on so little food at this point.

Thanks for your help

Yeah, about a week of he peas/fasting should help.
I was thinking of the larger betta pellets, but the reason for breaking the pellet up is to see if the bloat is a reaction to ANY food, or too much food. If you soften it first, then try only taking a few bits of the softened pellet and feeding him. Like I said, it's just part of trying to get to the bottom of the issue.
In this case, the reason for the salt is so the osmotic potential helps him poop more. Also, like smomus said, the slat makes it harder for bacteria to live which could otherwise attack him while his immune system is low, but in this case I am suggesting it for the laxative factor.
Bettas honestly don't need a huge ton of food. He is probably just fine on the amount of food he is getting. The pea has some nutritional value for him too. So, don't worry about him starving to death during this. The greater issue will be finding out if the internal issue is reversible. Hopefully it is. It's great that he has you to keep trying to heal him.

 

[greylady]

OK, thank you all so much for your help!

 

[smomus]

How is your betta?