Betta diseased, 5 yrd old Beside herself, How to Treat?

[adntigger710]

Hey everyone! Need some triage assistance stat, it would be greatly appreciated!

I apologize if I can't answer all of these questions in advance. I'm not the one who bought and care for the fish, but I am the one now up at 1:30AM trying to fix whatever he's done wrong. I'm sure some of you can relate

Our little blue betta, Doge, is not eating, has become lethargic, and has started turning white on the bottom of his face and it has spread to his fins (attaching photos, one healthy from Feb 11 and 3 now.) I've done a lot of research but can't figure out which disease it could be and don't want to waste time with a treatment that may not work and I know time is of the essence. My 5 yr old daughter cried herself to sleep. I've got to do something about this.

A little background: my boyfriend bought him a few months ago. This one fish very quickly snowballed into 8 fish, 1 dwarf frog and 3 tanks. Doge was first in the 2.5 gallon tank, then the 10g, but since he didn't really like the tankmates my bf had gotten, Doge was put back into the 2.5 gallon tank to live a solitary life. He's been there a little over a month? Somewhere along this journey the bf took Doge's filter and put it in one of the bigger tanks. Didn't put a filter back in. Just asked him how long ago, he says about a month. I guess he didn't think it was entirely necessary if he was alone and doing regular water changes (like the bettas you see in bowls etc). I can understand this logic, but still frustrating, and upset with myself that I didn't notice. He has been doing weekly water changes (I'm not so sure he's certain and he's not good with schedules so take that with a grain of salt). Not sure how much regularly, I think he said he replaces 1/3 with clean, conditioned water. This last change I watched looked opposite though (1/3 old water left), but not sure if he took more out because he's ill. He does have a heater and it seems pretty consistent at around 78 degrees. The first thing I noticed was lack of appetite. As for being lethargic -- he usually gets excited and flaps his fins when we visit or open his tank to feed him. Now, nothing. He's floating near the top but not flapping, barely a reaction. I can't give you any readings (ph, ammonia, nitrate, etc) because he doesn't have any of that either. Can buy whatever needed today. I can clarify any care questions tomorrow AM when he wakes if need be also.

He was just floating at the top, but then he went and wedged himself in between the filter and heater. Was there for like 15 minutes taking pics and he wouldn't move. 2 of the pics are what he's doing now (the super bright white is just light bouncing off the water). Before that he was up against the glass, at the top, kinda shaking (almost like a dog, but maybe he was itching against the side?) He let a couple bubbles out. My bf says this usually means he's making a nest and happy, but he's clearly not happy. He's pretty much always at the very top, I've noticed.

We actually stole the filter back from the bigger tank for the evening and were going to give the other fish the new filter we were going to buy in the AM. Was that ok or do I need to go take it out right now? They're all freshwater, a couple of tiny platy's are in that tank. Or, would it be helpful to put him in their 10G tank and put them in a different tank with some of their own water and new water and the new filter? Give him some of their water? I read something about giving him some of their gravel (when new, wondering if it'd be helpful here.)

I'm well prepared to fully triage and save this little guy. He's my favorite, and my 5 yr old daughter would be devastated if he passed. Ready to buy whatever medication, supplies, devices, new/bigger tank -- whatever might help him get better in even the slightest way possible and KEEP him that way. Even if it's a "just in case" purchase, so let me know what you think I should get. What kind of test strips or test liquid...maybe a vacuum? Water treatments (other than the API tap water conditioner we have). New food (he eats pellets)? Best just in case medicine for fungal and bacterial? 5 gal tank? Really anything at all. Better to have and not need than need and not have. My daughter just woke from night terrors, she dreamt he died and insisted on visiting the fish. Oy vey, poor thing. =(

Give me whatever you've got, it is GREATLY appreciated.

---

1~Betta: lethargic, not eating, has turned white on his chin, starting to hit his fins.
2~I truly wish I could say what the levels are. Can buy a test kit in the AM. He never bought one, of course.
3~ 2.5 gallon. A little over a month in this particular tank, we've had him since early Jan.
4~Apparently no filter right now, aside from the one I just threw in there from the other tank.
5~Just the one betta.
6~ This PM, looked like 75% change. Says he changes once a week. Knowing him he's not on that tight of a schedule. Says he removes about 1/3 normally? He doesn't even own a vacuum.
7~ Had him since early January.
8~Nothign new in the tank.
9~We feed him betta pellets.

Thanks so much everyone!!!

 

[adntigger710]

FYI, over 2 hours later, he's still wedged between the heater and the filter at the top of the tank. Half his body is out of water. Maybe to take breaths? Or could be another reason to be near them. Figure that might be helpful.

 

[Autumnsky]

It appears he is stressed. Best idea is get a liquid test kit, API Freshwater Master test kit.

I can not tell specifically what is going on. If he was large when you got him he may have been a little older.

Did you do dechlorinator in the water when t was last changed? If not add some now. If you have Prime water conditioner you can add the amount times 7 for the tank size treatment.

Do a couple 50% partial water changes (pwc) with dechlorinated water.

Get the test kit, test - report numbers.

Since it is in the middle of the night you won't likely be able to get to a supply shop till business hours.

Take in a water sample for testing from before you do the pwc and after you do them.

Other info below as Ill be at work tomorrow, others will likely help more.


What is the pH, it might be very low, and he might be having some shock from a pH crash. That was the only time I have seen a fish turn white rather suddenly.

Changing water is great, using dechlorinator? Does your water have chloramines many do so make sure the dechlorinator also can treat chloramines, usually a double dose is needed.

So likely you won't know about the chloramines but do a double dose when you use it if it does treat them as well. You can call the water department during business hours and ask them to find out form someone because of your fish. If they ever use them at any time during the year.

If it doesn't treat them them try a double dose anyway. And get some that treat if your water company uses them at all.

Prime water conditioner is a good one to use especially if you have a low pH, and low KH - carbonate hardness. It is important for water stability, like pH. Amaquel or Plus would have to check up on that) uses up KH with its binding of the chlorine so lowers KH.

If your test results come back as low - less than pH 6.0 you can do a couple things here is a you tube to review IF that is what it is. You use baking soda. Also Kent Marine called superbuffer-dKH. can be used for freshwater too. I have low KH and use it as needed and Epsom salts (plain no additives) are magnesium.

Another pwc would be fine 1/3rd to 1/2 using the dechlorinator (always even if it isn't mentioned specifically if you are adding water to the fish tank.)

It seems that you have to have a talk with the daughter about fish and life, or pets and life. She needs to know you are doing all you can but sometimes it isn't enough to keep him alive. Also that the fish live a much shorter life than most people. And there can never be another exactly like him but other fish need love and care too, so maybe in the furture you would want another fish. I do not mention this to be insensitive but just as one who has been a parent for a very long time and lived through so many pet losses. It is always hard.

IF the worst happens; Hug, tell stories about the fish and cry together and bond.

I hope the little guy will be alright and if someone can see an illness which can be fixed it can get treated properly right away.

Throwing medications at the fish with out doing the best to know what it is and how to treat it, will frequently cause further stress problems because of the harshness of the medications.

 

[Angellove78]

Get the liquid API test kit. Test the water. Get a gravel vacuum, a 5 gallon would be great! Some Tetra Aquasafe water conditioner, aquarium salt ( keep it on hand) your betta has fungus starting. It's a easy fix. But you gotta keep the water clean from ammonia. The water changes that are being done are not enough on that little tank. And taking the filter was the start of it. The ammonia is the waste build up in the tank from food and poop. As soon as you get the test kit. Test the water. What I would do is. Get a 5gallon set up for him. Put his filter on the 5gallon and test his old water. The sooner he gets in to good water he'll get better day by day. And test the water in the other tanks too. Get filters for them as well. Get some seachem prime for the other tanks. Treat your water changes with that. And some sponges to wipe the glass down. Water changes are key to this hobby. Updates will help us help you!

 

[Kitekat87]

The only thing I will add to what has already been said is that any filter you use needs to have a gentle flow. Hang on back filters are probably best for bettas because they don't do well with too much water movement, it will stress them out.

 

[Angellove78]

Get the liquid API test kit. Test the water. Get a gravel vacuum, a 5 gallon would be great! Some Tetra Aquasafe water conditioner, aquarium salt ( keep it on hand) your betta has fungus starting. It's a easy fix. But you gotta keep the water clean from ammonia. The water changes that are being done are not enough on that little tank. And taking the filter was the start of it. The ammonia is the waste build up in the tank from food and poop. As soon as you get the test kit. Test the water. What I would do is. Get a 5gallon set up for him. Put his filter on the 5gallon and test his old water. The sooner he gets in to good water he'll get better day by day. And test the water in the other tanks too. Get filters for them as well. Get some seachem prime for the other tanks. Treat your water changes with that. And some sponges to wipe the glass down. Water changes are key to this hobby. Updates will help us help you!

Oh! And get some dried blood worms. They love them. The filter you have should be cycled (meaning good bacteria) if there's a cartridge to it. Your gonna want to dunk that cartridge a few times into the back of any new filter for any tank. Or swap cartridges out. Do Not clean that cartridge, don't clean the inside of your filters!! And what ever you do... Do Not...throw the cartridge away and replace. Your gonna need it...Very important! Just a heads up! Having a cycled tank will save a headache. And a little girl crying for her fish's life.

 

[adntigger710]

He just got home with the test kit, a 3 gallon hospital aquarium and all of this:

seachem prime
api freshwater master test kit
api stress coat
seachem neutral regulator
Kent Marine superbuffer dkh
API aquarium salt

Going to run the tests now and report back before we do a water change to see what you might recommend. Thank you SO MUCH for your guidance!!!

 

[Dumbo the Fish]

Oh! And get some dried blood worms. They love them. The filter you have should be cycled (meaning good bacteria) if there's a cartridge to it. Your gonna want to dunk that cartridge a few times into the back of any new filter for any tank. Or swap cartridges out. Do Not clean that cartridge, don't clean the inside of your filters!! And what ever you do... Do Not...throw the cartridge away and replace. Your gonna need it...Very important! Just a heads up! Having a cycled tank will save a headache. And a little girl crying for her fish's life.

If gunk ever builds up in the filter cartridge, swish it around in used tank water then add it back to the regular tank. Plus one on the bloodworms!! You could also try using fried brine shrimp too! Phish goes CRAZY for them!

 

[Angellove78]

He just got home with the test kit, a 3 gallon hospital aquarium and all of this:

seachem prime
api freshwater master test kit
api stress coat
seachem neutral regulator
Kent Marine superbuffer dkh
API aquarium salt

Going to run the tests now and report back before we do a water change to see what you might recommend. Thank you SO MUCH for your guidance!!!

K,K! You wanta follow the directions to the T on all the test. Most important is the nitrate. Shake the crap out of it. And don't forget to shake the #2 bottle for 30sec. Before adding it to the tub. Good luck!

 

[adntigger710]

Here are the tank readings:

PH: 8.2
Ammonia: .25
nitrite: 0
nitrate: 0

This is after the approx 75% water change last night. He's still lethargic and hanging near the top, near the heater. Since the ammonia is still slightly high after that, is it possible it is ammonia poisoning?

So we have those supplies as well as 2 other tanks with cycled water. Should we include some of their water and/or substrate in his water change?

Also, how much of a water change is recommended for tonight and the next few days?

The photos are from today. The second he looks more white in his fins as he's backlit, but you can see the other side of him and his white face here too.

Any treatment options/instructions moving forward would be really appreciated. Doesn't seem any better today at all.

If it's nothing but stress, would stress alone really do all this to him (lethargy, appetite, color change, hanging at top and near heater)? Is it more likely he'll get better with the water changes and anything else recommended?

 

[Angellove78]

He didn't get another filter? You need one. The tank is not cycled and he looks like he's over feed. How much are you feeding and what? Stress will do a lot to these fish. Get a filter for him, feed him cooked peas (skinless) and after feeding do a 50% water change.

 

[Dumbo the Fish]

I use a whisper filter and it works amazingly well! It can get a bit noisy though

 

[Angellove78]

I use a whisper filter and it works amazingly well! It can get a bit noisy though

Does he have a filter on the tank now? And what's the temp at?

 

[adntigger710]

He does have a filter, sorry for the long responses it probably got lost in there. We took the filter back from the other tank and put it in last night, so he's had a filter for about 22 hours now, and had the 75% water change then as well. Was that ok? Figured it would be good for him with the bio in the filter etc. Also figured it was better than no filter. He put the new filter he bought today in the other tank since it's bigger and more suited for the larger tank.

His water temp is 77-78 degrees. Still hanging near the heater though.

Feed him about 6 pellets a day. Would overfeeding do this? If so what can we do to help aside from no food -- is he bloated?

How many peas, one? Are sweet peas ok? What if he doesn't eat it, just do the 50% water change?

So noone thinks ammonia poisoning? That would be a relief -- I think?

 

[adntigger710]

Oh, also, should we do the water change with seachem prime, stresscoat, both? Any water from the other tanks? Thanks!

 

[Angellove78]

The water from the other tanks will not do anything. Use the prime. And as for ammonia poisoning it might play apart in this. 75% water change last night and adding the filter last night. Nobody knows what the ammonia was at before a this. The thing is, the tank is not cycled even with the filter on it. You have no nitrate. Meaning... You have no good bacteria in your filter, or not enough. You will see nitrite when tank is going though cycle. Don't do a water change just yet. You might have to cycle his tank. Unless you have good bacteria from another tank. And yes one skinless pea. Cut down on the feeding for a min. Sweet peas are fine. Soak his pellets before you feed him too. But feed him a pea a day for a few days. If you can get the heat up to 80, they like that temp.

 

[Dumbo the Fish]

After raising the temperature and filtration of my tank I noticed my betta was way more healthy. I believe the betta could be stressed along with some ammonia poisoning. Stress does terrible things to humans so I bet it does the same for fish!

 

[adntigger710]

Ok got it. Try feeding him a pea, hold off on the water changes. Hold off until when -- when the nitrates are at a certain level (assuming the ammonia stays low?) Which level?

Adjustable heater on the shopping list as well as blood worms for when he feels better -- any heater recommendations?

Again -- thank you, SO MUCH, for taking time out of your lives to help us get this little guy healthy and happy. We really appreciate it. =)

 

[Angellove78]

Your doing a fish in cycle. So try to keep the ammonia at .25 never over .50, I wouldn't let it go long at .50 if you do. But, now your gonna want to test a lot! Mostly your nitrite and ammonia. When you start seeing readings of nitrite, start testing for your nitrate. When your nitrite reads zero and you got nitrate your tank will be cycled. Your ammonia should zero out too. But sometimes you'll have to do a water change to zero it out at the end. This is gonna take some time. Just make sure the ammonia stays low. Use your prime to treat the water. As for heaters I stick with the 50 watt aqueon heaters. They keep a steady heat. All my betta's heaters are at 80. Research a little on fish in cycle. You'll understand it a little better. Do your best to keep the bottom vacuumed. Waste is the worst for ammonia to start climbing. You might have to do water changes 2 times a day and when doing water changes if ammonia is at .50 (for example) your gonna want to do 2-50% water changes to get to zero. So, just keep in mind when you have to... what ever your ammonia level is at you need to double that % on water change. If this is confusing , read it again. If it's still confusing ask. Lol! It's tricky in away when your starting up in this hobby. But when you get one tank cycled, you'll probably want more. It's fun. [emoji6]

 

[adntigger710]

Awesome advice, will do! Added 6 drops of seachem to hopefully take care of the baddies from the .25 ammonia. I work from home so keeping an eye on him and testing shouldn't be an issue.

He's still at the top but now he's opening closing his mouth a lot, like taking breaths. Googled it, found the water is likely not oxygenated enough. We don't have an air pump or stones yet. Don't want him to die overnight for lack of oxygen. Tough one as a lot says to point filter up to agitate surface water, but then again he may be stressed and everyone said they like still water. Suggestions?

I saw an article on how to manually oxygenate the tank (in case of loss of power). Since the tank is so small, took a large medicine dropper and took up water and shot it back into the tank from about 8 inches for about 15 mins (as far away from him as I cld get lol). Was this helpful? Tough because I can't do that constantly and not sure how long that lasts. Is pulling the filter out to agitate ok? I feel like nothing I'm doing is helping. =(