Nu-Nu the eel
Aquarium Advice Addict
Just checked the tank. One of our hatchet fish has like 10 spots of ich so i turned up the temp. Uh oh...
Clear poop, bad?
- Thread starter Gboy66
- Start date
The friendliest place on the web for anyone with an interest in aquariums or fish keeping!
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Medicating fish
Just like in Humans, you need to run a FULL course of meds when you are treating fish. Shortened treatments only produce organisms that will be resistant to the med the next time. If the parasite med you're using calls for a water change, do it and continue a full treatment. You'll need to treat the ich with heat for now unless you have an Ich med that can mix. YOu'll need to call the manufacturer for this info. If you tested the water and everything was okay, keep going. If the water parameters are off, do a water change and retreat as if new. Amount of water change depends on the extreme that the value was off. The more off, the larger the water change.
To repeat, shortened treatments do not acheive the desired results. They create future disasters. Don't do it !
Keep us posted
I am glad he is starting to eat! That is good news! I would wait until atleast tommorrow before switching meds. Do a large pwc & run some carbon in your filter for a few hours to remove any traces of meds. I actually would probably follow this with another large pwc after putting your old media back in to be sure you have removed as much of the meds as possible before starting new meds. And watch Gabriel closely for any changes! Good luck!!
Just like in Humans, you need to run a FULL course of meds when you are treating fish. Shortened treatments only produce organisms that will be resistant to the med the next time. If the parasite med you're using calls for a water change, do it and continue a full treatment. You'll need to treat the ich with heat for now unless you have an Ich med that can mix. YOu'll need to call the manufacturer for this info. If you tested the water and everything was okay, keep going. If the water parameters are off, do a water change and retreat as if new. Amount of water change depends on the extreme that the value was off. The more off, the larger the water change.
To repeat, shortened treatments do not acheive the desired results. They create future disasters. Don't do it !
Keep us posted
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
PH update
As some of you may recall, I challenged bs6749 to explain a natural phenomena regarding the Discus reducing the PH in their tanks. To date he has offered no alternative reasons for this finding. I recently spoke with a fellow breeder who is also a TF Wholesaler /importer which gives him access to fish from all around the world. He also has been breeding fish since he was a child and is still carrying on a bloodline of Angelfish that I was breeding for his Father over 20 years ago. He is currently breeding approx. 20 pairs of domestcated and wild Discus in a centralized system. He explained the following: when in seperate tanks he also found that the Discus would lower the PH in their tank rapidly after a water change. It happens more so in the wild fish than tank raised ones but both would do it. Once he centralized the tanks, the values would not fall as rapidly most likely because of the volume of water within the system.
What bs6749 failed to realize is that we are not talking about inert compounds and basic chemistry. Just like humans, the fish's secretions and foods and mood can alter their chemistry. I think I can put this conversation to rest.
Finally, I suggest that if you want to know a fish answer, ask someone who KNOWS fish
As some of you may recall, I challenged bs6749 to explain a natural phenomena regarding the Discus reducing the PH in their tanks. To date he has offered no alternative reasons for this finding. I recently spoke with a fellow breeder who is also a TF Wholesaler /importer which gives him access to fish from all around the world. He also has been breeding fish since he was a child and is still carrying on a bloodline of Angelfish that I was breeding for his Father over 20 years ago. He is currently breeding approx. 20 pairs of domestcated and wild Discus in a centralized system. He explained the following: when in seperate tanks he also found that the Discus would lower the PH in their tank rapidly after a water change. It happens more so in the wild fish than tank raised ones but both would do it. Once he centralized the tanks, the values would not fall as rapidly most likely because of the volume of water within the system.
What bs6749 failed to realize is that we are not talking about inert compounds and basic chemistry. Just like humans, the fish's secretions and foods and mood can alter their chemistry. I think I can put this conversation to rest.
Finally, I suggest that if you want to know a fish answer, ask someone who KNOWS fish
Nu-Nu the eel
Aquarium Advice Addict
Mlani said:
Came home today and everything was the same... Gabrial chillin in the death corner, ich infested fish, and a temp that wont raise! Its only at 81 so we keep turning it up!
Mumma.of.two
Aquarium Advice Obsessed
Wrap the tank in aluminum foil and wrap in blankets. Keep the lids on and put the heater at a 45 degree angle near the filter intake. See of that helps. Ask your parents if they can turn the temp up in the house (if you have central heating). If all else fails you'll need another heater.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
I understand your point...
The only reason I posted here was because the original post was part of this thread. Back to trying to save Gabrial 
The only reason I posted here was because the original post was part of this thread. Back to trying to save Gabrial
Nu-Nu the eel
Aquarium Advice Addict
Okay thanks mumma! It takes a long time for that heater to get going, but it got up to 88 last time we had ich! We will put blankets on top to trap the heat, and it has been very hot today so the house is cooking. Lol thanks!
Nu-Nu the eel
Aquarium Advice Addict
Andy Sager said:The only reason I posted here was because the original post was part of this thread. Back to trying to save Gabrial
Thanks! Its very helpful to have all of you guys posting, we really appreciate it!
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Heaters
You may also need to invest in a larger wattage heater. How big is your tank and What size heater is in your tank?
Another choice if you don't have enough blankets is to wrap the tank in styrofoam from the home improvement store (a.k.a. Home Depot). You can get sheets of it, cut it to size and seal the tank. This with the right size heaters got my outdoor fish sections through this year's Florida Freeze. The morning air temps were in the upper 30s and my tank thermometers were reading 78 degrees.
Nice and toasty.
Came home today and everything was the same... Gabrial chillin in the death corner, ich infested fish, and a temp that wont raise! Its only at 81 so we keep turning it up!
You may also need to invest in a larger wattage heater. How big is your tank and What size heater is in your tank?
Another choice if you don't have enough blankets is to wrap the tank in styrofoam from the home improvement store (a.k.a. Home Depot). You can get sheets of it, cut it to size and seal the tank. This with the right size heaters got my outdoor fish sections through this year's Florida Freeze. The morning air temps were in the upper 30s and my tank thermometers were reading 78 degrees.
Nice and toasty.
Those poor guys are really getting the works aren't they? You guys too 
what size is your heater? I had to buy a new one when I was battling ich. Now I have put higher rated heater in all my tanks for the just in case moments.
what size is your heater? I had to buy a new one when I was battling ich. Now I have put higher rated heater in all my tanks for the just in case moments.
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
I think I smell a problem here...
I think I smell a problem here...
If I understood correctly, your tank temp is effected by the house temp and the heater? If this is a normal seasonal thing, you'll need to raise your temp during the hot months to just below the the normal high the house gets. example: if your house regularly gets to 88 degrees during the day and 78 degrees at night, the heater should be set at 86 and the oxygenation of the tank should be increased. As the normal daytime temps lower, you gradually lower the heater settings accordingly so that the fish don't get stressed. Warmer water, while not ideal after a certain point, is not critically bad IF you have enough dissolved oxygen in the water and the fish aren't actually cooking. The constant rise and fall of temps causes stress on the fish( and a leading cause of Ich) even though the high and low temps are in the safe range. Any change of more than 2-3 dgrees is a no no for fish, especially sensitive fish. Any change larger than this should be done over a 12 -24 hour period for each change. You also will need to lower the airation as the temps lower.
Just something to remember when we get past this episode (Who said keeping fish was all fun and games? )
I think I smell a problem here...
If I understood correctly, your tank temp is effected by the house temp and the heater? If this is a normal seasonal thing, you'll need to raise your temp during the hot months to just below the the normal high the house gets. example: if your house regularly gets to 88 degrees during the day and 78 degrees at night, the heater should be set at 86 and the oxygenation of the tank should be increased. As the normal daytime temps lower, you gradually lower the heater settings accordingly so that the fish don't get stressed. Warmer water, while not ideal after a certain point, is not critically bad IF you have enough dissolved oxygen in the water and the fish aren't actually cooking. The constant rise and fall of temps causes stress on the fish( and a leading cause of Ich) even though the high and low temps are in the safe range. Any change of more than 2-3 dgrees is a no no for fish, especially sensitive fish. Any change larger than this should be done over a 12 -24 hour period for each change. You also will need to lower the airation as the temps lower.
Just something to remember when we get past this episode
(Who said keeping fish was all fun and games? )
Nu-Nu the eel
Aquarium Advice Addict
Ya its a 40 gallon tank and i dont know the watts right now, but i do remember that it is rated for up to a 40 g. There is a blanket on top of the tank right now. Not sure what els there is to do for gabrial..., we have dosed 3 times poor guy is gettin skinny and still wont eat much at all... Should we buy special de worming flakes or something???
poor guy is gettin skinny and still wont eat much at all... Should we buy special de worming flakes or something???
ejaramillo01
Aquarium Advice Addict
Nu-Nu the eel said:
I just read your thread, what a journey guys! I'm sorry for your recent loses, but looks like you are trying the right things, let's hope for a happy ending, and soon!
Trying to add something here, and based on my short experience, I always found a direct relationship between blood worms and clear stringy poop. I don't care if is a "great branded product" or purchased at a lfs, frozen or fresh, my observation is that a diet which includes blood worms increases the risk or chances for internal parasites.
I don't know the exact reason, I'm not saying that the parasites come with the worms, which is a possibility, but also I think that the fish love worms and they eat a lot, then they suffered trying to digest the amount consumed and finally get constipated or develop internal parasites. And yes then the suggestions come to feed boiled peas, etc, but why the need of all of this?
I lost beloved fish due to internal parasites, since I quit the blood worms as a part of the diet, I have not experienced more this type of illness (knock on wood). I went to a diet with a quality pellet, flakes and once in a while fresh shrimp that I harvest from my shrimp tank.
Just my opinion. Good luck
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Heater part 2
I think it's time you get back to basics. The heater is probably a bit undersized for doing quick temp changes and that's a little problem when you are dealing with Ich. I suggested you check your water parameters to make sure you're not out of balance anywhere. Did you do that? Have you done a full course of anti Parasite medication? Are you following the directions for the med as recommended by the manufacturer?
The best food I can think of right now to try and feed is Live food such as brine shrimp. If he will not eat live brine, there's no sense in trying dead or dehydrated food because he probably won't eat it. Are you having temperature flucuations on a daily basis? It's important to regulate this if it's happening.
At some point you are going to have to let nature take it's course. If you create an ideal environment for your fish, you will not be having so many problems. Your description sounds like your environment is not stable and stabilizing it will create the best chance for your fish to recover.
That, at the moment, is the best advice I can give you without the answers to my questions.
Ya its a 40 gallon tank and i dont know the watts right now, but i do remember that it is rated for up to a 40 g. There is a blanket on top of the tank right now. Not sure what els there is to do for gabrial..., we have dosed 3 times
I think it's time you get back to basics. The heater is probably a bit undersized for doing quick temp changes and that's a little problem when you are dealing with Ich. I suggested you check your water parameters to make sure you're not out of balance anywhere. Did you do that? Have you done a full course of anti Parasite medication? Are you following the directions for the med as recommended by the manufacturer?
The best food I can think of right now to try and feed is Live food such as brine shrimp. If he will not eat live brine, there's no sense in trying dead or dehydrated food because he probably won't eat it. Are you having temperature flucuations on a daily basis? It's important to regulate this if it's happening.
At some point you are going to have to let nature take it's course. If you create an ideal environment for your fish, you will not be having so many problems. Your description sounds like your environment is not stable and stabilizing it will create the best chance for your fish to recover.
That, at the moment, is the best advice I can give you without the answers to my questions.
ejaramillo01
Aquarium Advice Addict
I'm insists:
Blood worms (fresh or frozen) = Increase risk of parasites....
Good quality pellets is the best for fish, specially cichilds. IMO...
Blood worms (fresh or frozen) = Increase risk of parasites....
Good quality pellets is the best for fish, specially cichilds. IMO...
jetajockey
come get me tang police!
How does frozen bloodworms increase risk of parasites?
ejaramillo01
Aquarium Advice Addict
jetajockey said:
Maybe I'm wrong, in my experience, I have experienced parasites when I include frozen blood worms as part of the diet, maybe I got a bad batch, maybe during the supply chain the temperature was not controlled properly.
Another theory, with not scientific evidence, is that the fish eat a lot of worms, specially cichilds, and then they struggle digesting the worms causing constipation and developing internal parasites....
Again maybe I'm completely out of base here...
Andy Sager
Aquarium Advice Addict
Fish food
What we are talking about is trying to get the fish to start eating again and pooping out the parasitic worm or worms or worm segments. What brine does is basically it acts like a laxative and should get the fish back on on track, poop wise. Once the fish is eating again on a regular basis, then it can be put on a different more balanced diet.
What it sounds like (to me) is that there are multiple problems with the system and fish which the food probably had little to do with. Possibly the wrong amount of one food (ie too much protein and not enough vegetation) might have added to the problem but most likely was not the cause.
I've heard of potential problems with live bloodworms as they are alive and can contain all types of things but I haven't heard of anyone absolutely concluding that an organism survived a freezing and became vital again after thawing and effecting fish. Do you have anything like that because I'd really like to read it You can never learn too much
What we are talking about is trying to get the fish to start eating again and pooping out the parasitic worm or worms or worm segments. What brine does is basically it acts like a laxative and should get the fish back on on track, poop wise. Once the fish is eating again on a regular basis, then it can be put on a different more balanced diet.
What it sounds like (to me) is that there are multiple problems with the system and fish which the food probably had little to do with. Possibly the wrong amount of one food (ie too much protein and not enough vegetation) might have added to the problem but most likely was not the cause.
I've heard of potential problems with live bloodworms as they are alive and can contain all types of things but I haven't heard of anyone absolutely concluding that an organism survived a freezing and became vital again after thawing and effecting fish. Do you have anything like that because I'd really like to read it
You can never learn too much Similar threads
