Columnaris?

[DeirdreHoyle]

I just changed my substrate from gravel to sand (actually just put 3 inches of sand on top of the little gravel I had) and I had a little mini-cycle but it seems to be fine now. Problem is, my male GBR now has a white fungusy looking thing on his mouth. How do I know if it's columnaris or just a fungus, and what do I do about it? I don't have a quarantine tank, I have lots of live plants and have scaleless fish.

25 gallon tank

Stock:
1 male GBR
1 clown pleco
6 neon tetras
6 harlequin rasboras
5 kuhli loaches
Tons of Malaysian trumpet snails

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[DeirdreHoyle]

Also I should mention, I had a male/female pair of GBRs but the male bullied the female and she recently died. About 2 weeks later I did the substrate change, and now the male has white stuff on his mouth

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[Matt68005]

The most current effective nitrifying bacteria safe treatment for bacterial infections is a combination of Kanamycin sulfate antibiotic, and Nitrofurazone aka Furan-2 aka furan green, used in a hospital tank exactly as directed.
There are alternative treatments, Oxytetracycline, Minocycline. Just make sure its a gram negative antibiotic and you combine it with something to kill fungus, as long as its safe. Oxytetracycline and minocycline can be combined with the good bacteria killing Methylene blue, but are less effective at higher ph/calcium rich hard water, and thus the kanamycin/furan2 combo is what a lot of modern breeders use.
There is new bacteria becoming resistant to the old tetracycline class antibiotics as well.
Personally I use Oxytetracycline because it is much cheaper than kanamycin and impossible to overdose, kanamycin can destroy a fish's kidneys if overdosed.

 

[DeirdreHoyle]

The most current effective nitrifying bacteria safe treatment for bacterial infections is a combination of Kanamycin sulfate antibiotic, and Nitrofurazone aka Furan-2 aka furan green, used in a hospital tank exactly as directed.
There are alternative treatments, Oxytetracycline, Minocycline. Just make sure its a gram negative antibiotic and you combine it with something to kill fungus, as long as its safe. Oxytetracycline and minocycline can be combined with the good bacteria killing Methylene blue, but are less effective at higher ph/calcium rich hard water, and thus the kanamycin/furan2 combo is what a lot of modern breeders use.
There is new bacteria becoming resistant to the old tetracycline class antibiotics as well.
Personally I use Oxytetracycline because it is much cheaper than kanamycin and impossible to overdose, kanamycin can destroy a fish's kidneys if overdosed.

Thanks that's helpful! Will Oxytetracycline and furan2 hurt my loaches and plants? And will the meds kill my bb?

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[Matt68005]

Thanks that's helpful! Will Oxytetracycline and furan2 hurt my loaches and plants? And will the meds kill my bb?

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Oxytetracycline is to be combined with methylene blue, it will hurt your plants and kill Good bacteria. (The M. Blue will)
Furan-2 is okay for good bacteria, as far as the plants, snails and whatever else, i reccomend not using them in a hospital tank as you will be using this tank with meds.
Do not combine oxytetracycline with anything besides M. Blue dye.
Kanamycin/furan2 is a good combination, and does not negatively impact good bacteria in the tank

 

[Matt68005]

Oxytetracycline/M. Blue is way cheaper, but must be done in a bare tank with nothing but a airsone and heater, and 50% water changes daily for 8-10 days. Its pretty oldschool.
Kanamycin/furan2 is BB safe, faster, newer (meaning less resistant bacteria) but, waay more expensive and have to be careful dosing Kanamycin.
I mean this is alot of info for a new person to absorb, and alot of money for one or two sick fish, so are you planning on using meds at all? Buying them from fish store? petco type store? ordering online?

 

[DeirdreHoyle]

That's interesting because I used furan2 once last year for fin rot and I thought it killed all my bacteria and sent my tank into a mini cycle....I might have used it wrong though. Atm only the one fish is showing any signs of illness. I buy all my meds at my lfs (called The Wet Spot in Portland, OR) and I know they have furan and Kanamycin, I'm sure they have the other 2. I guess I'm not sure if it's worth it to harm the whole tank to save one fish. I do have an empty 10 gal with a heater but no filter...I could buy and airstone and use the 10 as a hospital tank. I'm just not sure!

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[Matt68005]

No, i know for a fact the furan 2 does not harm BB.
Kanamycin can be expensive in powder form...but its a good modern gram negative "bactericidal" (meaning it kills bacteria not inhibit it, aka fast and strong) antibiotic
It can cause liver and kidney damage and failure and even death.
Oxytetracycine is an older "bacterilistatic" type drug, inhibiting the protein the bacteria needs for growth, so it is safer but must be used for 8-10 days 2 or 3 times a day, very cheap and hard to overdose.
Oxytetracycline is Gram + and Gram - Broadspectrum, kanamycin is only Gram -

 

[Matt68005]

Thats why you combine the kanamycin with cheap Furan because furan is old Gram + antibiotic and they put a anti-microbal agent in the furan as well.
M. Blue is also for Gram + bacteria and Microbes (fungus, its actually water mould)
Hope i did not confuse you too much.
That is probably more than the guys at your fish store know. lol

 

[DeirdreHoyle]

No not confusing at all, you've been really helpful. I have one last question. Have you used the oxy/M. blue combination and had a fish recover and go on to live a long normal life? Or is there a good chance that he'll go through all this and just die anyway?

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[Matt68005]

I have cured columnaris and bacterial infections with it for years. I have saved fish within a inch of their life, and treated tankful of columnaris ridden guppies with only a couple loses out of 30+ fish.
It is an excellent combo, much cheaper and safer than the other.
Use the hospital tank, pack him full of OxyT. food 3x a day, and use the M. Blue to a medium blue color, and if hes at all savable, he will be O.K.
Yes they can come back and be just fine, long full lives.
Oh and dont forget 50% water change everyday in the hospital tank because M. Blue will kill BB. (or just take your filter out and use airstone, but you gotta change water or ammonia/nitrite will kill him anyways lol)