Columnaris or not?

[Ficklewinds]

1~What type of fish is afflicted? Started with Diamond tetras and now Dwarf Neon Rainbos - cotton like stuff on the mouths and heads, no lesions, minor bloating.

2~What are your tank parameters (ammonia, nitrites, nitrates, temp, pH)? Ammonia 0, Nitrites 0, 2 nitrates, temp 76 F, and 7.2 on PH

3~ How large is the tank? How long has the tank been set up? 36 gallon, newly cycled tank, about 2 months empty with just plants and driftwood, just added fish

4~What type of filtration are you using? SunSun 303b canister and Penn Plax Cascade 200 and a double sided sponge filter

5~How many fish are in the tank? What kinds of fish are they and what are their current sizes? 6 dwarf neon rainbows about .5 to 1 inch, 3 males, 3 females.

6~When is the last time you did a water change and vacuum the gravel? Wednesday, an 80% water change and plan on doing another this evening.

7~How long have you had the fish? If the fish is new, how did you acclimate it/them? Since a week ago today. I originally had 8 diamond tetras and 6 dwarf neon rainbows, but the tetras have all succumbed to the disease and they were the ones that first had it. I believe they came from the dealer this way. I drip acclimated the tetras but ran out of airline so did the add a cup of water to the bag with the rainbows. I took my time and waited over an hour before adding to the tank.

8~Have you added anything new to the tank--decor, new dechlorinator, new substrate, etc.? No

9~What kind of food have you been feeding your fish, have you changed their diet recently? I was feeding them Omega One flakes and Hichari micro pellets.

To make the story short: I put the rainbows in first. They were perfectly healthy and were fine. When I went to added the tetras, 2 were dead. The next day, another one was found at the bottom of the tank dead. I then noticed the white tuft on ones head. I believe the fish were sent to me sick and the shipping stress made it worse. I believe this because my tank was empty and the two dead ones to start with had funny looking mouths. I'd like to add all 8 were alive before I started the acclimation process. The seller is not replying to my emails.

It was the weekend, I live in a small town with no LFS, so I had to rely on Amazon. Between Monday being a holiday and the horrid winter weather up north, I didn't get any meds until Wed. The meds that showed up were API Fungus Cure, Furan 2, Maracyn 2, and Maraxy. I was using melafix before then not expecting anything but hoping it would at least slow things down until the rest could arrive. By then, I was left with three diamond tetras. Now I just have the rainbows and would really like to save them.

I'm totally not sure what it is they have. As mention, there are no lesions, just the white stuff on the mouth and only the mouth, save for the one tetra that had a large white cotton looking ball on his head. I have no QT tank just yet. All I have is a 6 gallon tank that's still being cycled. By the time I realized the issue though, the rest of the tank was infected.

The rainbows have really tiny mouths and are too fast to photograph. But three of them have the white stuff on their lips and one has a small dot on his head. I noticed last night, one of the females looks a little bloated, but the white spots seem to be going away. I fed them a frozen pea. But honestly, I'm not 100% sure they are any better at all.

So far I've dosed the tank with the API Fungus Cure. It's due for another dose tonight. Last night I added the Maracyn 2. I did order some kanaplex and it will be here today. My initial plan was to use the kanaplex and furan 2 together, but since it took so long to get here due to weather delays, I figured the fungus cure and maracyn might slow things down. I also added a little bit of aquarium salt. So far the fish are eating fine and don't seem stressed. What should I do at this point? Just finish the fungus cure/maracyn 2 and hope for the best? Those treatments will be done on Monday. Is it safe to use kanaplex and maracyn 2 together?

Buying a QT tank tonight for future issues. So frustrated with all of this. It's just not fair. And to add to it..... I think my plants are done for.

 

[Ficklewinds]

Well, the fungus cure and maracyn 2 must being doing something. Fish are doing much better and the fuzz seems to be going away. One male keeps chasing one of the girls around the tank though..... I guess if he's feeling that frisky he must be doing better LOL. All six didn't skip the lunch meal either and I didn't notice anymore bloat.

Crossing fingers this is good..... Going to finish up the fungus cure and maracyn doses then instead of the kanaplex. At least I'll have the stuff on hand for future outbreaks Now, how do I get rid of the green water after Sunday when the fungus cure is finished?

 

[Ficklewinds]

Okay, I am beyond frustrated.

I finished the Fungus Cure on Sunday and the Maracyn 2 yesterday. Rainbows are doing much better but still have white fuzz on a few of their lips, with one male looking like he has a mini merlin thing going on.

I bought some more diamond tetras and put them in a small 6 gallon temporarily for QT and to give the big tank time to heal. I ordered them before all this started when the others started dying and totally jumped the gun, but aside from being cramped, they were doing great all weekend. I don't have a 10 gallon tank and I don't have the room for a 10 gallon QT atm. We're still remodeling half the house.

Yesterday, I come home and they now have the white stuff on their mouths, TOTALLY different tank.

Honestly..... I'm at a loss. The six gallon was to be a betta tank and it was cycled and the water parameters were 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, and 3 ntirate. I changed the water completely the night before I added them...... I"m doing another water change this evening, but GRRRRRRRRRRRRR.

At least I have the kanaplex and furan 2 on hand this time and started the dosing as soon as I saw the white mess. It's not as bad as it was on the other tetras, but after that disaster I'm terrified. I'm tired of losing fish and to top it all off, the rainbows aren't completely cured either.

But back to my original question. Is this Columanris??? If it was, shouldn't my rainbows be dead by now? It seemed to mow down my tetras in a hurry, but these have never stopped acting fine and have been eating well.

Anyone out there have any experience with this? Do I just have bad city water? I know I have rotten luck, but sheesh. I'm wondering if I should just find the rainbows a home and go back to plants.

 

[Delapool]

It sounds very much like cotton mouth or columnaris. There are 90(?) different types and a chronic infection can last for weeks.

Very likely you will need to repeat dose meds for a weeks treatment all up at least. There must be no white specks remaining otherwise you may just be knocking it down but not out.

Tank temp around 76F to slow it down, antibiotic meds and salt (plants won't like salt but over a day or so add salt to 2 or 3 tablespoons per 5 gallons and see how they cope). From limited experience tank temp and meds are I think more important than salt dosing if you wanted to skip salt.

 

[treemanone2003]

It sounds very much like cotton mouth or columnaris. There are 90(?) different types and a chronic infection can last for weeks.

Very likely you will need to repeat dose meds for a weeks treatment all up at least. There must be no white specks remaining otherwise you may just be knocking it down but not out.

Tank temp around 76F to slow it down, antibiotic meds and salt (plants won't like salt but over a day or so add salt to 2 or 3 tablespoons per 5 gallons and see how they cope). From limited experience tank temp and meds are I think more important than salt dosing if you wanted to skip salt.

+ 1. While I've never had to deal with it, I've read many times that Furan-2 and Kanamycin (Kanaplex) is the better option for treatment. Unless you have Methylene Blue or Potassium Permanganate at your disposal for treatment. Also, with the fact that you're now experiencing this in multiple tanks, my thoughts would be that there's been cross contamination of some type. Whether it was hands, tools, water splashing between tanks, somehow it spread.


Sent from my iPhone that doesn't like me. Or you !!

 

[Ficklewinds]

Okay, so this is my plan for the big tank this evening. Do a 50 to 80% water change, put in some charcoal and let it run for 24 hours to clear up residual fungus cure and maracyn 2. After that, I will start dosing the furan 2 and kanaplex on that tank as well. I was using salt and I moved my temp down to 76 last week, but I didn't add any more salt when I did a water change on Sunday. I was worried about my plants, but I haven't seen any major issues with them so far. Of course, my tank is still a lovely neon green so it's hard to tell. I'll add more salt tonight.

I did clean the canister filter on Sunday as the lines were getting gunked up. Replaced the tubing and rinsed the media in tank water.

As for the other, I'm just praying I caught it in time. At least a 6 gallon tank will be easier to treat. I probably need to buy some more kanaplex come to think of it.

I hadn't thought of cross contamination. The smaller tank has completely different nets, filters, etc. I don't really share anything between the two, but hey, that's a thought. I do share the food although I don't feed them when I'm messing with the tank per se. I know I can't find the potassium permangate as I've looked for it, but I'll see if I can find the methylene blue and order it with the kanaplex. I'll try anything at this point.

 

[Ficklewinds]

Well, at lunch today the rainbows are looking better, merlin's beard has shrunk considerably. I'm still planning on the water change and carbon tonight and start a new round of meds tomorrow evening.

Diamond tetras seem a bit better too, less white today than last night. I'm considering since both tanks are plagued, going ahead and moving them over tomorrow since their next Furan and kanaplex dose starts tomorrow.

But then, that may stress them more.

Either way, thanks for your help.

 

[Matt68005]

It dosent always respond to antibiotics and anti-mold medicines like its suppose to, especially if its progressed quite abit.

 

[Delapool]

This I thought a nice link on it for treatment. Salt and the dyes I found would clean up the infection back to I guess the wound site itself.


http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columnaris

 

[Delapool]

Well, at lunch today the rainbows are looking better, merlin's beard has shrunk considerably. I'm still planning on the water change and carbon tonight and start a new round of meds tomorrow evening.



Diamond tetras seem a bit better too, less white today than last night. I'm considering since both tanks are plagued, going ahead and moving them over tomorrow since their next Furan and kanaplex dose starts tomorrow.



But then, that may stress them more.



Either way, thanks for your help.

I've found you have to repeat dose. My suspicion is that by the time we see it, the infection is well advanced and it's a mad scramble to save remaining fish.

 

[Ficklewinds]

Well the diamonds are doing loads better, only one has any white left and it's just a tiny spot. Same with the rainbows. The lime green water is gone so I'm going to remove the carbon and dose the big tank with the furan 2/kanaplex combo. I don't thinK I'll have to do a second dose on the 6 gallon. If I have any meds left I think I will anyhow just to be safe, but I'm going to use up most of the kanaplex on the big tank I'm sure. I have more coming in so we'll see.

After all this is said and done, would using the UV sterilizer in the sunsun help with any residual issues?

 

[Delapool]

Excellent news.

A UV unit can help but it has to be a well designed (read more expensive unit). I'm not a fan of UV units within canisters as a UV unit is often designed for low water flow to maximise residence time around the bulb whereas canisters are high water flow (climb off soap box).

I've still had columnaris running an in-tank uv unit plus one that came with a second canister filter. That said, it may have limited the outbreak as it was restricted to one school of fish mainly.

 

[Ficklewinds]

I'm really iffy on the UV sterlizer LOL, so I enjoyed the soap box. Thought about buying a better one, but the next thing my money goes toward is a new light.

If anything it won't hurt I suppose? Might as well give it a try.

Anyhow, I think this may be getting cleared up finally and I've learned many lessons, starting with getting a QT tank. Hopefully by the time I add more fish the house will be closer to done and I'll have a place to put it.

Thanks to you all for your help.

 

[Delapool]

I'm really iffy on the UV sterlizer LOL, so I enjoyed the soap box. Thought about buying a better one, but the next thing my money goes toward is a new light.



If anything it won't hurt I suppose? Might as well give it a try.



Anyhow, I think this may be getting cleared up finally and I've learned many lessons, starting with getting a QT tank. Hopefully by the time I add more fish the house will be closer to done and I'll have a place to put it.



Thanks to you all for your help.

I noticed the water has been a bit clearer using it. Family agreed! Didn't mention cost...

I've been happy with them, hard to tell if they make a difference but worse case for me is it hides some pipes and provides a little quiet spot.

I have wondered and never researched, if a UV unit could disrupt the balance of a tank somehow. Like if normally there are a 1000 bacterial populations floating around keeping each other in check but the UV filter cuts this down to a few hundred super-bugs. My neighbour raised this and I was going to ask my sister but permanently distracted with growing plants. It was just general conversation, his tank was going well.