Corwin the Betta sick again

[Sahabo]

Problem #1: He's excreting large amounts of poop (or something...worms?) Poop used to be the color of the pellets I feed him and small. Now they are much bigger and whitish, also much more frequent occurrences.

Problem #2: He's got a bad case of finrot again.

I feel like I need to put him in a quarantine tank to treat him, but I don't have an extra tank or heater. I don't want to kill the good bacteria in the sponge filter, driftwood and plants by medicating the main tank. Part of me also feels like housing him temporarily so I can start over and do a proper fishless cycle in the main tank. Not sure there are any options without buying another tank and heater though.

Anyone have ideas about what the first problem might be?

 

[Zagz]

It sounds like internal parasites. You can either QT or will have to treat the main tank. Jungle's parasite clear, or prazi pro if he isn't eating, or if he is jungle's medicated food or geltek to soak the food in.

 

[Sahabo]

Really? But the poop isn't stringy, it's solid and large. his stomach is healthy round, not bloated, not skinny. he's eating normal.

If it were parasites, could I give him anti-parasite food while treating the water with fungus eliminator for the finrot?

here's a question: can I put the filter, driftwood and plants in a bucket of tank water while I treat him in the main tank for finrot?

here's a pic...

 

[An t-iasg]

When you identified the white lump as poop, that was my first thought too - internal parasites. Usually the symptoms are as you suggest - sunken-in belly and stringy white poop. But this large lump is very different from any betta waste I've seen. I have never seen betta waste in a large lump like that and I've never seen it lying around the tank except briefly when I had white sand, and even then it didn't appear overly large.

What are you feeding him on a daily basis? Have you tried peas once a week? My bettas get peas on Saturday and then on Sunday I don't feed them. Peas help with constipation, which is noticeable when the poop hangs off their body for a while. I haven't seen this with my current bettas. Some of my former bettas had bouts of constipation but never the large lumps of waste that you describe. So I'm thinking something like a parasite is responsible for this change in appearance.

I would try treating both the finrot with Fungus Eliminator and feeding the Jungle anti-parasite food concurrently. I wouldn't combine two dissolvable meds but I'd go ahead and try these two together. Just watch for signs of stress. You could remove the filter and driftwood to a bucket of tank water but you'll need an ammonia source to feed the bacteria while it's in the bucket. I bought a 10% solution of ammonium chloride from a chemical supply house. I only used it a few times when the betta was in QT - I put one drop a day into the main tank - but it came in very handy.

In your first post, you say that you want to properly do a fishless cycle in the main tank. Fishless cycles are the way to go but do you feel the 5 gallon tank hasn't cycled yet? Are you still seeing ammonia levels? How long has Corwin been in this tank?

 

[Sahabo]

I feed him Hikari bio gold pellets, about 5-6 per day. I have occasionally fed him a pea, but not on a regular weekly schedule.

I guess I'll try the Jungle medicated food and fungus eliminator as you suggest.

I would like to get an ammonia source so I can feed the bacteria in the bucket. Is it hard to find? I wouldn't know where to look... white pages under chemical supply?

As far as the cycle goes...Ammonia is always 0 now so it must be cycled. On the other hand, I have never seen any nitrItes or nitrAtes at all throughout this process, and it's been since March that Corwin has been in this tank. But one betta in a 5 gallon is a pretty small bio-load, so...

I guess I said that because I feel like somehow if I started over and did things properly, Corwin would be less likely to get sick.

 

[Zagz]

I found pure ammonia at Walmart. Make sure it doesn't have any soaps or antibacterial agents in it. If you can't find any ammonia, use a jumbo shrimp. It takes a bit longer but it will work.

The poo doesn't look like any I've seen either from a betta. Not sure if poor Corwin has parasites or not but treating him with medicated food certainly won't harm him.

 

[Sahabo]

Thanks Anne and Deb. You are both so helpful as usual I'll check Walmart. How much should I use per gallon?

 

[An t-iasg]

I forgot about a shrimp. That would work too.

I did a quick search: Nalco Chemical Co - South Portland, ME | Local.com

You'd have to call this place and see if they could make a 10% ammonium chloride solution for you. At the place I got mine, they offered various liquid and granular preparations but none was quite right for the aquarium. I called and explained what I wanted and they made me 500 ml of the NH4Cl. I used one drop a day in my 5 gallon while the betta was in QT.

I understand the reasoning behind your wanting to begin the cycle again, but if you've got no ammonia or nitrites now, then you're cycled OK and removing Corwin to start over won't really make things different. Fishless cycling is better for the fish that will eventually live in the tank but even if the cycle started with the fish in the tank, once it starts and completes, and the bacteria is established, there's no reason to start again.

When I cycled with my previous bettas (before I had planted tanks) I used Bio-Spira or a squeezing of media from an established tank. I had ammonia levels for 2-3 days and nitrites for one or maybe two days. The nitrite phase for me went faster than the ammonia phase. Maybe you missed the spike, but if it's 0 now then all is good.

How are your temperatures holding up? If a betta gets finrot, gets better, and gets finrot again, I would suspect a temperature swing. But then, my very first betta (such a sweetie!) pretty much had finrot constantly throughout his life. I have had bettas since that never once had any finrot. They are all different.

 

[mom2reds]

Heidi I am so sorry to hear that Corwin is sick again, I will keep my fingers crossed for him and wish him a speedy recovery.

 

[An t-iasg]

Here's another site for NH4Cl and under the FAQ it says they do special orders.

Ammonium Chloride - WARD'S Natural Science

 

[Sahabo]

Deb, temps are stable at 80. thanks for the links!

Thanks for your compassion, Tess. Here's hoping that both our bettas get better soon!

 

[Zagz]

I have to agree with Deb. Your tank is probably stable enough. Corwin is a fighter, I am sure he will be fine. An updated pic of the handsome guy is in order IMO.

 

[CatatonicBug]

Ace hardware is the easiest place to get ammonia. They sell it in small bottles, called janitorial strength. There is an Ace in Portland at this address:
274 Saint John St
Portland, ME 04102

The bottle looks like this:

 

[mandown123]

flakes will work why bother with pure ammonia?

 

[marchmaxima]

Hey Heidi - I just saw this... Give Corwin a kiss and cuddle from me (figuratively speaking). Hope he gets better soon.

 

[Sahabo]

Wow, thanks for the support and help everyone!

Catatonic, that ACE is really close to where I live...I didn't know they sold ammonia, thanks for looking it up!

Mandown, you mean feed the bacteria with fish food?

Thanks to Sharon, Deb and Anne for the reassurance and sympathy

Here's a pic I took this morning. He is a handsome guy, even with half his fin gone!

 

[mandown123]

yes that is what i meant.

the fish has all his color it looks like, good sign i'd say. corwins got a lot of buddies here lol he must have quite the personality

 

[Sahabo]

corwins got a lot of buddies here lol he must have quite the personality

he certainly does! And, as he is my only fish at the moment (I'm still quite a newbie), I talk about him a lot around here and on the chat. Thanks for the advice!

 

[Sahabo]

Alright folks. I found some stuff called Ammonia Clear at my grocery store. Ingredients: soft water, ammonium hydroxide. Is it good? And how much of this should I drop per gallon of water in the bucket per day...how much equals the waste from one betta?

 

[An t-iasg]

Shake it up first in the bottle just to make sure it's not foaming. If it foams up and you see suds, don't use it. The ingredients don't indicate any soap or surfactants but just make sure.

When I attempted to keep my betta's 5 gallon tank cycled while he was in QT, I added one drop of ammonia per day to the tank. That was only a guess since I just wasn't sure either of the amount. But when I was ready to put the betta back in, the ammonia test read 0, meaning the biological filter processed the ammonia I added, so it was still intact. If you're adding the ammonia to the bucket with the driftwood, plant, and filter, if the water volume is about 4 or 5 gallons, adding one or maybe two drops a day would be my best guess. If the bucket is smaller, try one to two drops every other day. You could do ammonia testing to the bucket water and if you're reading ammonia, cut back on the amount you're adding.

My ammonia was a 10% solution. Does the label of the ammonia you have indicate a "strength"?