Cotton wool or cloudy eye

[cocoah]

December of '09 I got a 20 gallon tank and set it up with a filter, gravel and ornament. I also got a juvenile celestial eye, who has had a little bit of trouble due to my inexperience at the time, but has recovered and has been healthy for months.

Two days ago I checked the water(ammonia, nitrate, everything) and they were all fine, so I got a little black moor. At this time I also added a live plant. I had been feeding my celestial eye flakes, but bought freeze-dried bloodworms when I got my second fish to give them a treat. So, there are a lot of extra things I added at once so it's hard to find the problem.

So today I look at my black moor, she had some cottony growth on her fin yesterday but I figured it was because of the stress of the new tank and she'd get over it. But now it looks like she has cloudy eye, with a little bit more cottony growth on her.

What should I do? Lastly, I change 10-20% of the water, and vacuum up a tiny bit of gravel(don't want to take away everything) maybe twice a month.

 

[jsoong]

Check the parameters now ... Adding a new fish in a small tank can bring on a mini-cycle, you may be seeing the effects of ammonia burns. At the very least, do a large (50%) water change to see if things improve. Clean water will never hurt.

The second possibility is the moor has a disease. Goldfish are often sick in the lfs ... It is imperative that you QT any new fish to prevent spread of diseases to your tank. Some people will treat all new goldfish on spec. One regime would be doing a salt dip for external parasites, followed by low level salt bath (~0.1-0.2%) in the QT for 2-4 weeks, gradually reducing the salt down to zero before putting the fish in the tank. Some would also use Praziquental for internal parasites. The fanatics add antibiotic food during QT, but that can promote bacterial resistance.

If your water parameters are fine, it is quite possible that the moor has something, possibly columnaris (aka flex), or just simple fin rot. a picture will help. You should QT the fish if at all possible. I would start with adding some salt to the QT (~0.1%). <Note that salt will likely kill your plants, so not recommended to do this in planted tank.> If the fish is getting worse in spite of clean water & salt <do daily pwc's in the QT, as you will not have a cycled setup>, you may consider feeding an antibiotic containing food - something with kanamycin &/or metronidazole would be good.

 

[cocoah]

I just tested the water, here are the results.

Ammonia - 0
Nitrate - 0
Nitrite - 0
Total hardness - 75
Total chlorine - 0
Total alkalinity/kh - 120
ph - 7.8
Temp - stays between 68 - 76.
That's a big range but it gets really hot here in Sacramento sometimes.

Are those okay?
I cannot quarantine I don't think because I only have one tank, and even if I used another container, I don't have an extra filter or airstone. I am thinking of giving him a salt bath(I read 1 tsp salt per 1 gallon water, is that right?). I have aquarium salt. Should I bathe both fishes to be safe, or only the affected one? I read they should be bathed 5-15 minutes.

 

[jsoong]

Your levels would rule out a mini-cycle. Chances are the moor has something from the lfs.

A salt dip is a good start. I usually use 1% salt solution for dips. That would be ~40g per gal, or roughly 2 Tablespoons per gal. At that level, you would dip for around 5-10 min max. Watch your fish closely, as soon as the fish is in distress, you will have to remove the fish to fresh water. Also, at that level, the fish will be very sedated. If the fish loss consciousness & flip over, removing to fresh water will revive him. <This is acutally a good way to sedate goldfish for procedures.> If the fish is small, weak, or never been exposed to salt before, it would be safer to start with 1/2 strength - ie 0.5%.

I am not sure if you need to dip the celestial eye if he has no symptoms. It is a bit of stress to salt dip the fish, I might go with a prolonged salt bath instead (0.1-0.2% for a week or so).

Since you have no QT, your other option is to remove the plants & salt the whole tank. I would up the salt by 0.1% per day. <That would be 1 Tablespoon per 10 (TEN) gal >, aiming for 0.2 or 0.3%. I would leave the fish in salt water for a few weeks till all signs of illness is gone, then gradually drop the salt back to zero with water changes.

If the fish are getting worse with the salt treatment, then it is time to try antibiotic food.

 

[cocoah]

I bathed the black moor in a 1 gal bucket of .5% salt for 10 minutes, since she's still a little one. She seemed completely fine during the process and she looks better already. I'm hoping she'll fully recover soon. Great advice!

Another question I had about clamped fins.. Sometimes my celestial eye will float and his fins will be clamped to his sides, but other times he'll swim around with his fins all around him. Is this normal behavior?

 

[jsoong]

Glad to hear the moor is looking better. Keep up the good work.

As for clamped fins, if the fish is sleeping, the side fins would be by the side. The dorsal fins should be erect, however. Sometimes it is just a matter of knowing what is normal for your fish, as all fish behaves a bit differently.

 

[cocoah]

The black moor passed this morning, and I feel so terrible about it. She seemed a lot better after I gave her the salt bath, her eye looked fine. Then the night before she seemed a little sluggish, not as active as usual, but it didn't look that bad, but in the morning she was completely gone. We only had her for maybe 4 days too.

Today when I came home from class, I see my celestial eye floating, and he is usually happy around this time, because I feed him. I run to the tank, really worried because of this morning's events, and see that he is still breathing. Also I readily notice that he has red around his gills and blotches/spots under his chin. This is really worrisome to me.. I love this fish.

What should I do? I just checked the water two days ago and don't think that could be the problem. Do you think the moor had a disease and transferred it to my tank? Should I give the celestial eye a salt bath?

 

[jsoong]

Yes, I think there is a disease that had been introduced into the tank & you should be treating it.

There are 2 possibilities:
1. The white patches/ cottony growth on the moor points to a bacterial infection, possibly flex (aka columnaris)
2. The red spots under the chin in the celestrial eye, if it is actually little hemorrhages, is typical of costia, a parasite.
BY NAME, DISEASES OF GOLDFISH AND KOI

It depends on what the red spots looks as to which diagnosis is more likely. An internal bacterial infection (ie septicemia) also may give redness, but this is due to inflammation & vessels dilation. Typically, this is seen as red streaks in the fins, the blood is contained in vessels, and not blotchy like a bleed.

If the red spots are actually bleeding under the skin, rather than inflammed looking, then costia is a strong possiblity. Treatment for costia is salt (salt dip followed by a low level bath) & heat. Although salt is effective for external bacterial infection, once it gets to be internal, you will need to treat with antibiotics. Ideally, you want to use a medicated food like Medi-Gold. If the fish is not eating, then Kanamycin in the water is 2nd choice. I suppose you can use both the salt bath and the antibiotic if you are uncertain of the diagnosis, esp. if the fish is looking lethargic & sick.

 

[cocoah]

The celestial eye is doing horribly. I fear his death is close.

The red blotches aren't that visible now. The day after I posted last, there were white specks on him, his fin specifically, so I got some super ick cure and did a water change. I also gave him a salt dip and then lightly salted the tank. It didn't work.

The next day he looked worse.. bottom sitting, fin clamping. Later that day he looked bloated and was "pine coning" so I assumed he had dropsy and got some medicated anti-bacterial food and did another water change.

The following day he looked worse, the white "ich" spots now look a little bigger than ick, but only slightly, not enough to be patches or anything. His eyes look bloated, maybe a symptom of dropsy or cloudy eye. And today he has fin rot.

I don't know what to do. I'm afraid my fish is lost. I really want to save him. What am I doing wrong?

 

[logansmomma1228]

I really wish I could help you out, and I am really sorry you are going through this. It makes me pretty sad and I hope your fish will get better soon! I would definitely think about getting a quarantine tank, so this doesn't happen in the future. Good Luck

 

[jsoong]

If he is pineconing, then the prognosis is bad. I don't have too much to add except:
1. remove the salt - it worsens dropsy. Do a couple large pwc to get the salt down, then add MgSO4 - epsom's salt - at 1/8 tsp per 5 gal. <The large pwc's also ensures your water is clean.>
2. increase the tank temp if possible, at a couple degree F every few hours, as long as the fish is tolerating it. You must have good aeration if you do this. Go all the way to 82 or so if the fish is not worsen by heat. <Heat increases metabolic rate of fish & help fight infections.>
3. continue the antibiotic food for minimum of 14 days.

Keep your fingers crossed. Fish that get dropsy from infection may respond to antibiotics.In future, always QT new fish ... prevention is much easier than treatment.

Good luck! I hope your fish pulls through.

 

[logansmomma1228]

might i ask what pineconing is? doesn't sound very good I really hope jsoong's info helps you and that your fish pulls through.

 

[jsoong]

might i ask what pineconing is?

Another name for dropsy.
BY NAME, DISEASES OF GOLDFISH AND KOI

 

[crockwood]

I'm not sure why no one has mentioned medication beyond salt.

I've recently went through a bout with a Gourami I recieved with a tank I purchased via craigslist. I noticed white cottony growth on the gills, and some fin rot. I looked up the symptoms on a site I saw linked here listing common symptoms and treatments of freshwater fish. I cant find the link now but I'll look.

It sounds like you have exactly the same conditions as me. I fixed mine by going to the LFS and buying some Maracyn-2. It's a medication for a broad range of things including dropsy, fin rot, and many parisites. You want to remove the carbon from your system if you run it so it doesn't pull the Maracyn from your water column.

You could also look at using MarOxy in combination with the Maracyn-2 to kill fungus but the latter took care of everything for me. If its spreading, and you've had two fish have issues, I wouldn't worry about putting anything in a QT and just treat your main tank. If its a parasite the others could already have it.

It's how I handled mine and everything survived, including the badly damaged Gourami. She's till healing the open spots but that just takes some time.

EDIT: Make sure you follow the instructions on the box. If you get the quick desolving powder, the first day you need to put 2 packets per 10 gallons in the tank, and then for the next 4 days you need to put 1 packet per 10 gallons. Maracyn-2 is a little expensive, especially if you feel you need to treat a large tank, but it works so to me its worth it.

 

[cocoah]

Thanks for the advice but I can't keep buying all this medication not knowing it will work for sure - poor college student.

I did a 75% water change this morning, when I saw that salt was bad. His "pine coning" has gone down considerably(it wasn't terrible, just kind of bad) but his fin rot seems worse. The white spots look about the same.

He is trying to swim around now, at least, so that is better. Should I keep using the super ick cure? I think I'll keep doing big water changes and the medicated food.

 

[cocoah]

I found him behind the filter a few minutes ago.. I don't know if he got stuck and died or died naturally.

I guess it was just a matter of time.

 

[jsoong]

Sorry about your loss. You did the best under the circumstances.

 

[logansmomma1228]

I am sorry to hear that. Hopefully it won't happen again