Do ITCH come with fish or plants?

[Menagerie]

Mike, if you haven't already read Allivymar's ICH article, do so. It gives a clear guide to treating FW ICH. After all signs of it are gone from the fish, keep up treatment for an additional two weeks.
If it is fungus on the plants, it probably is not harmful. You may want to post a pic in the plant forum and get their input.

 

[mikemou]

Thanks for the advice. Currently the temp is set @ 82F and two nights ago I started medication. (forgot the name, recommanded by lfs)

Here're the specs: Tank is 55 gal., Penguin330, ammonia & nitrite are zero, ph around 7, gh about 5 drops. I can't test for nitirate.

BTW, will I actually see cysts swimming in the tank with my bare eyes??? That's gotta be yuckky!

 

[jsoong]

The white spots on the fish falls off when they get big enough - that is the cyst stage. I have white gravel, so I don't see that very well, but I did see spots in water when I gravel vac. The cysts just sits in the substrate & don't move. Then each cyst divides into thousands of tomites. These swim in water to seek new host. They are too small to be seen without a microscope. Just as well, thousands & thousands of things swarming in the water would be ICH-Ky!

 

[Allivymar]

Just to clarify a few things:

You likely will not be able to see the nasty lil buggers swimming; they're microscopic.

Ich DOES need a host to survive; that host must be a FISH. Ich cannot survive on plants, inverts, etc for very long and only when encysted. However, the cysts can hang out for a short while without a host (as they do on the bottom of the tank), which is why occasionally new plants or inverts added to a tank can bring ich along with them as the cysts can be sitting in or on them.

Don't increase temps a degree an hour; thats much too fast and can stress the fish severely.

Ich is not present in all tanks or on all fish. Just as with the common cold, one must be exposed to it. If you treat successfully, there will be no ich in your tank until it is reintroduced again (like with new fish).
Whatever is on the plants isn't ich, but your neon definitely has it. It also has a case of fin rot too; keep an eye on it. You may need to treat with an antibiotic after the ich treatment if the fins don't get better.

 

[crazie.eddie]

From PetEducation.com's "Ich in Freshwater Fish"..

It should be noted that these tomites will only survive for 48 hours, if they do not find a fish to attach to. These tomites will also attach to plants, filter material, etc. So if you move a plant from an infected tank into a clean tank, you have just infected the clean tank with ich.

From WetWebMedia.com's "Freshwater Ich, White Spot Disease"...

Ich is almost always present in freshwater systems and is parasitic on most if not all freshwater fishes. All that it takes to become pathogenic (actively infectious, disease-causing) is a strong strain of ich (e.g. an import from a newly added specimen), a not-so healthy, poorly-resistant host and/or a poor environment for the fishes. Re the last: Note that all diseases are to degrees environmentally linked. If the fishes are initially in good health, put into a suitable, stable home, the chance of outbreak is small.

Raising the temp a degree an hour should be no problem as long as the temp is gradual and does not deviate by much. What I mean is, your tanks are probably around 78-80 degrees F, so raising it a degree for each hour up to 81-82 is not a rapid increase. If your temp was around 76 or below, then it may be too rapid.

 

[Allivymar]

Just to clear up your confusion eddie, the ich parasite cannot survive without a fish host. Yep, I've read WWM's article, as well as many others before doing my own research and writing the article in the article section.

The information about ich, its survival and host can be found in publications such as the one found here: http://aquanic.org/publicat/usda_rac/efs/srac/476fs.pdf and here http://aquanic.org/newsltrs/state/mississi/miss3_96.pdf . Ich is classified as an obligant parasite and needs a host, that host being a fish. There's plenty more research on the net; all of it confirms the host must be a fish. I do agree an encysted parasite can survive a short period of time without a host and laying on a non-host object such as a plant or in a net, but theronts cannot actually infect and feed on anything but a fish. I suspect the infestation which occurred in mikemou's tank may have actually come in with the banana plant, where some cysts may have been introduced by equipment used in other tanks in the store.

And yes, if the tank temp is within a couple of degrees of the target temperature, a degree an hour shouldn't be hugely stressful. However, many folks keep their tanks at lower temps, and to simply say raise temps a degree an hour is misleading and can be dangerous.

 

[heavenly]

Unfortunatly it does look like ich, however it can be velvet, or both
I have no clue about the cystds on the plants if that is what they are.. Go Good luck in saving your fish!

 

[intensity68]

I think the ITCH does come on plants, fish, equipment, and even people. After the first time i walked in the LFS I got the ITCH. I haven't been able to get rid of it no matter what i do. I spend more and more and more money thnking that it will cure the ITCH, but it just won't go way. What can i do?? PLEASE SOMEONE HELP ME!!!

 

[Menagerie]

It sounds like you are allergic to something then, since you have itch. The fish are suffering from ICH (no "T")
I suggest stop medicating, don't add anything to the tank and treat with high temps until there are no longer signs of ich on the fish, then treat for an additional two weeks.
After that, add nothing to the tank without QTing it first.

 

[intensity68]

i just had to make up a rant about my addiciton to this hobby. LOL Since it started out being called ITCH the pun was too alluring for me to let it pass. BTW Menagerie, my goyder river rainbow does have parasites and i'm treating him now. I dont know yet if he will make:-(. At least there are no secondary infections apparently.

 

[mikemou]

whoever started this thread can't spell.....

 

[mikemou]

(well, got zero response in another thread..., try again here....)

I'm going to set up a 5 gal QT and moving the two struggling neons in there to continue their ICH treatment.

As to the big 55 gal tank, I don't want to tear it down and clean it inside out...AGAIN! It's got several plants and a couple baby snails came with them and gravel so it would be too much hassle to do a complete cleaning job. I'm planning to syphon/gravel vac most of the water out and leave just enough for the plants and let it sit there for over 48 hours, and restart the tank. From what I gathered ICH won't last 48 hrs w/out fish. Any other concerns I should wait longer than that? Or there're better options/solutions?

Thanks for your help!!!

 

[jsoong]

From what I gathered ICH won't last 48 hrs w/out fish. Any other concerns I should wait longer than that? Or there're better options/solutions?

The tomites (free swimming stage) will not last 48 hrs without fish, BUT the cysts can last up to 2 weeks with temp in the 70's, longer if temp is lower.

So, to completely eliminate ich, you need to be fishless for 2 weeks. You could decrease the time by upper the temp to 80's tho - but lots of us will still wait the 2 weeks just to be safe.