Do we Have Septicemia?

[txmustang]

I have a silver comet goldfish he for a long time has been showing a red steak across his body . It is very thin now on the bottom of his tail I see a dark red/brown place (thin small ) across his tail. He seems to be acting all right.We did just lose his tank buddy after he had been sick on and off for many years. He had popeye then he got swim bladder.His eyes never got better and for the last 2 yrs before he died he went blind. I did treat him for many different things but with only a pet store for help I am now uncertain that I was doing the right things and felt really badly when we lost him 3 days ago. I know now I have had them in to small of a tank. Sadly I already bought him a new tank mate. I am trying to find a 30 gallon tank until then they are in a marineland bow face 12 gallon tank.I am not able to split them up so I am thinking to try to med.both together. When I have checked the water we have been good. I always use bottled spring water and try to change every two weeks.I used to to complete water change and washed the rocks. I quit that and now use the water hose to suck up the junk off the rock. Two weeks ago I changed out their tank and that was when my little blind guy started getting sick again and sadly I did not catch it in time. I now see he was already weakened and the way I did all the things I thought were going to make it better made it worse. He got tail rot and I did not think it was any big deal .Now I would do this differently .Any advice would be great I had these first two little guys for about 8 yrs and do not want anything else to happen to the one I still have or his new friend. Help !

 

[jlk]

Hi and welcome to AA!! I am sorry you lost one of your fish. Do you have a means to test your water or are you just taking it to be tested? Are they using liquid tests or strips to test? Most lfs use strips which are known for their inaccuracy.

As I am sure you are already aware, a 12g tank is impossibly small for two goldfish especially two comets. Your sick fish's symptoms (red streaking in fins) could possibly be septicemia but its likely a combination of factors with water quality being a prime culprit. I would start by increasing your water changes to 50% atleast 2-3x a week with temperature-matched, properly conditioned water. Prime or Amquel Plus will help to deal with toxins.

Septicemia is an internal bacterial infection that can be difficult to treat even in ideal circumstances. A kanamycin-medicated food would be your best option. I am not sure where you reside, but if you are in the US, google 'The Goldfish Connection' and hit their store. They sell a kanamycin-med food called Medi-Gold. There are better options for treatment but you will need to enlist the aid of an aquatic vet for these. Addressing any water quality issues is a must because a fish can not recover without healthy water. Upgrading their tank & investing in an API freshwater test kit will allow you test your water on your own & address any issues that may arise. I hope this helps! Good luck & dont hesitate to ask any questions!

 

[txmustang]

Septicemia

Thanks for your help. Let me begin by saying only the sick one is a comet the other is a cute little black with a touch of gold.Let me try to remember what type the new one is and I will get back to you. I have been checking the water a lot and its been very good all the levels have been great since I started watching .I use the API fresh water master test kit and its a solution.I can only guess that at some point in time I had bad water. I am watching that very close at this time. I am trying to decide what to do, at this time I am using melafix and was told I can also use Maracyn two. I have yet to start this. This was all I could find at petsmart.I am not sure how long it will take but I am planning to get a 30 gallon tank very soon and thats part of my concern as it will be a new tank on top of all the meds. Will this cause any kind of extra problem. The only good thing is as always I will use bottle spring water and put in the Aquarium Salt. Any buddy who can help me with any of these questions it will be greatly appreciated as I am afraid I might do something that will stress out my little guy as he is already showing that streak and It seems like this might be a tuff call.I really have little experience with all these problems and its so hard to diagnosis. Help !

 

[txmustang]

Aquatic Vet

One last thing I am in Plano Tex. and I cant seem to find an Aquatic Vet any ideas on that would also be so great ! Thanks again for all your time and help for my little goldfish this whole thing is making me a bit nuts .

 

[jlk]

Hi again! The best thing you can do for now are lots of water changes. Melafix will not be of any help. Maracyn 2 will also be of little help because septicemia is an internal infection- it needs to be addressed internally through either medicated food or injections. Without the help of an aquatic vet, the kanamycin-medicated food I suggested is your best option. Its called Medi-Gold from the Goldfish Connection.

Plano, Tx is right outside of Dallas. Theres an aquatic vet service that makes house calls. I do not know what their fees are- you will have to contact them. Its called DFW Aquatic Health Services (DFW Aquatic Health Services) #972-247-2242
Keep us posted!

 

[BillD]

The advice given above is sound. My question is why are you using bottled water instead of tap? For upgrading a tank, consider Craig's List or Freecycle. Perhaps you can get a bigger tank for less money. What kind of water temperatures are you keeping?
The way to success in fishkeeping is clean water, whether it be goldfish , tropical or marine.

 

[txmustang]

Bottle Water

Hi I have been told that with bottle spring water you are much safer than tap. Is that not right ?

 

[txmustang]

Temp

HI again sorry about 2 posts but still trying to get the hang of this ! Temp is right about 72 and I am looking on Craigs and freecycle also. About to break weak and just do Plano Pets or Petsmart.I do not know how to cycle the tank but am willing to try. Afraid that the switch now may be harder than not.Any ideas here would be helpful.Should I wait to give the Maracyn Two ? Also since I have been using the Melafix should I wait or how often while we have the small tank should I be doing water changes with the 2 goldfish in the 12 gallon tank ?Help !

 

[Mumma.of.two]

Hello and welcome to AA!
Septicemia needs to be treated quickly with medicated food, lots of clean water and salt. I have successfully treated it with the help of jlk and other helpful members of this site. Discontinue the use if the melafix. You are wasting precious treatment time on a product that will not work. Goldfish are thick skinned so using medication in the water isn't as effective as using a medicated food. Using a medicated food allows for more medication to be absorbed through the fish's gut.
Upgrading the tank will be quite simple. What you need to do is move ALL the filter media over to the new filter or move the entire old filter over and run beside the new filter. Move all the substrate over to the new tank. It can be replace if you wish in a few months. By doing this you will be moving the majority of the beneficial bacteria to the new tank preserving the cycle.
Try doing daily 50% water changes on the tank (old and new when you get it). The more clean water you can flush through the tank the better.
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/forums/f17/cry-for-help-septicemia-goldfish-189343.html
Here is my thread.


The use if bottle spring water is fine but can get very expensive especially when changing water daily. Tap water is fine to use as long as you use a dechlorinator, like SeaChem Prime. The chlorine and chloramine in tap water can harm fish and kill the beneficial bacteria off. Do not ever use distilled or RO/DI water in you tank unless you add the minerals/buffer back in with a product like kent RO rite or SeaChem Replenish. Without these the cycle suffers, the fish can become unhealthy and plants can't get enough nutrients.

 

[txmustang]

Treatment

Hey again ! Can I order and get the food fast enough ? Also have 2 fish in same tank one sick and one new. How much salt to treat in the 12 gallon tank ? Last of all this fish has had this long streak across the middle of his body for awhile. He seems hungry and seems all right. Also I did not know about the cycle on the tank till this week and I just switched to a new tank,new water and clean rocks last week.

 

[jlk]

You can place an order online now or wait til monday & call directly & ask them to overnight it (expect to pay additional shipping cotsts). Their hours are 10am-3pm M-F. #888-864-6919/814-864-3908.

For salt, you want to use aquarium/kosher/canning salt at a .3% salinity. This approximately 2.5 level teaspoons per gallon although weight would be a more accurate measure due to the different coarseness/grain sizes of different types of salt (11.4g/gal or 3g/liter). This needs to be premixed in a container of tank water & added gradually over 48hrs. When you do water changes, add back only the salt you remove (50%wc, add back 1/2 original dose). Stay on top of your daily testing & water changes to keep the water as healthy as possible.

 

[txmustang]

Salt

Hi, am doing a 50 water change and want to be sure to do this right . Before when I did the change I added to table spoons right into the tank. This time I took a gallon jug and put 27 teaspoons into the jug of new tank water. I am not sure if this is right and how much to put in for them to start off with. Then I am needing to add every time I do another 50 water change the same amount ? Sorry some of this is a bit confusing and I really want to be sure to get this perfect so as not to stress my over stressed fish any more. Need an answer pretty quick so I can only hope someone will see this as I need to put fish back in and want to have all thats needed in water at that time. Thanks so much !

 

[jlk]

This is a 12g tank, correct? 12g x 2.5tsp= 30tsp OR by weight 11.4grams x 12g=136.8grams

If you were to do a 50%wc, you would need to add back 15tsp (or 68.4grams) premixed in container of tank water so its completely dissolved before adding. Does this make sense?

 

[Mumma.of.two]

A full dose of salt (0.3% for goldfish) for 12 gallons is 30 teaspoons. Add all that to your jug and dissolve. Add 1/4 of this solution every 12 hours. After 48 hours you will have a full dose of salt in the tank. When you remove half the water you are removing Half of the salt in the tank so 15teaspoons need to be added back in with the new water. Keep track of how much is in the tank. Write it down if you have to.

Edit: jlk - too fast! Lol.

 

[txmustang]

Time

Also how long should I wait after the tank water change before I put the fish back in . Everything is pretty murky and I know to put them in a bag and let them sit for 5 or 10 minutes before letting them out but as I use the spring water its pretty close on the temp. remaining the same. Thanks for getting back so quickly .

 

[Mumma.of.two]

No need to remove the fish for a water change. Leave them in the tank. Remove half the water. Add your dechlorinator (if needed) and fill back up with water roughly the same temperature. If its from the same source every time the fish will be fine.

 

[txmustang]

Cave /ship ??

Do these guys like having somewhere to hide? Also I see my 8 yr old comet has lost some more scales. The guy at pet store said this is common as they get older is this true? Last but not least I have gotten a new 29 gallon tank but the stand is not any good.The guy also gave me a bag of good water from one of his tanks and said this will help me to cycle the new tank as I am afraid to take water from my tank to use to set up with. Remembering this all started when my one fish with Popeye,Swim Bladder, Fin Rot, and was blind passed away . Someone told me it sounded like fish T.B.While my last remaining fish has had problems it was never the same type of stuff that happened with our blind guy ? Anyway the question is can I let the bag of water sit its just hanging on the outside of the tank and will it keep the bacteria if its sitting bagged up for a week and still be able to work in the set up for the new tank?

 

[jlk]

Some real or artificial silk plants will give them spots to hide in. I would not add a bag of water from anywhere else because you will likely be introducing possible disease & bad bacteria as well as it will not have the same paramters as your tank water. Very little good bacteria lives in the water column- the majority of it is in the filter media. Adding cycled media to your new tanks filter will help the most with cycling.

The symptoms you listed in your deceased fish do not sound like fish tb. They were most likely due to poor water quality. Poor water quality will sicken fish as well as lower their immune system allowing them to be suseptible to multiple health issues. The missing scales could be the result of numerous issues as well. The best thing you can do is keep their water healthy.