Dwarf Blue Gourami with sore

[techiegirl]

My tank has been set up about 3-4 months and have had the gourami since shortly after that. The only other fish in my tank (10 gal) is a fancy platty.
Sunday AM I noticed a red sore on the gourami. It's located on the top left of it's body - in front, but to the side of the dorsal fin. It is circular in shape and sticks out - like a blister almost. It is bright red.
The fish has been acting fine and eating ok.
I do biweekly water changes.
The last change last week stirred a lot of crap as I was vaccing the gravel.
This reminds me of something my Oto got on his back a month ago and he died a week later. I wonder if I stirred up something in the gravel?
I started a dose of Melafix on Saturday, but stupid me thought the directions said once every 7 days, not once a day for 7 days!! *smacks self and makes a note to get new eyeglass prescription.
So I dosed it again tonight.
I have done some searching here and it seems that melafix is bad for gouramis?
What should I use instead?
Maybe I can post a picture tomorrow - I will try.
Oh and my params...
NH4 = 0
NO2 = 0
NO3 = 10
pH = 6.8

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[tetrin]

yeah, melafix sure seemed to gun down my gouramis. but what they had was probably flexibactor...my lfs suggested melafix and (stupid me, i knew nothing bout these things then)...within two days, kaboom, both ended up on their sides...it seems the oil in melafix messes up their secondary breathing organ...unfortunately, i don't have enough knowledge to suggest nething to to treat the sore with...

 

[Menagerie]

Try looking through these sites for what is wrong with the fish:
http://www.aquatronicsonline.com/hobbyist/hobbyist3.htm
http://www.aqualink.com/disease/sdisease.html#ich
http://fish.mongabay.com/diseases.htm
http://www.wetwebmedia.com/AqBizSubWebIndex/fishdisho.htm
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/health.htm
Once you figure out what is wrong, you can treat with the proper meds. I am not great with labyrinth fish, but An t-iasg is and I PMed her on your behalf.

 

[An t-iasg]

Labyrinth fish, like bettas and gouramis, can be sensitive to MelaFix. The melaleuca oil, like tetrin said, can get into the labyrinth organ. The medicine seems to lie on top of the water, like a film, and the fish gets it into his labyrinth as he comes to the surface for air. It's almost like us getting a noxious gas into our lungs. I have read here and in other articles that MelaFix is great for other fish, but not for bettas and gouramis.

I gave MelaFix to my first betta. He was very listless. One day, after a dose, he fell like a rock to the bottom of the bowl. I immediately did a large water change and didn't use MelaFix again. He perked right up! Then after this episode, I began reading of other bettas that didn't do well with MelaFix either. So now I recommend that bettas and gouramis get other medicines.

As far as the red spot, I would treat with an antibiotic in a QT tank, so the med doesn't hurt the good bacteria that keeps your tank cycled. I have had good luck with Kanacyn and Jungle Fungus Eliminator.

Do biweekly water changes mean once every two weeks? Most people here do weekly changes. I only have 2 tanks. Some people here have a lot more! If you're only doing water changes, and gravel-vaccing once every 2 weeks, that could be why you see a lot of crap in the gravel. Try doing weekly changes, and getting the waste out of the gravel more often. You don't have to vaccuum the whole tank at once. Do half one week, and the other half the next week. But remove about 20-25% of the water each time. That may also help the conditions that led to the red sore in the first place.

 

[techiegirl]

thanks everyone for your help!!
and ty An t-iasg for the advice on the water changes! I will start doing as you suggested (it had been every 2 weeks, so that makes sense to change it to every week.)
ok, I stopped using melafix, did a water change, being more careful siphoning the gravel this time.
I looked throught the sites that you gave me Menagerie and kept researching on my own and I came up with was furunculosis. It had started to spread Friday to the dorsal fin and left rear side - red spots/streaks. I bought Triple Sulfa by Aqaurium Pharm. Today was Day 3 of treatment and while the fish is acting totally normal and the sore is no longer as red and it appears to be getting better.....
but I came home from work and now in the center of the original sore is a white cottony growth. I know that is fungus.
Sooooo....
Does that mean it was always fungus and I was treating wrong or did the fungus just jump on board with the bacteria?
Can I treat for fungus at the same time?
I have time to go to the petstore tonight and get something.
Thanks!!

 

[An t-iasg]

I have a Mardel brand disease chart here. It says to use their fungus medicine along with their antibiotic to prevent secondary infections. I have used the Mardel fungus med with the Mardel antibiotic at the same time, and it didn't hurt my betta.

I also went to the Aquarium Pharm site and looked at their list of meds. Their brand of fungus treatment is called Fungus Cure liquid or Fungus Cure capsules. There is no label info on the website, though. Usually you don't want to use different meds together because it can be stressful.

But since I had good results from combining the Mardel meds, I'm thinking that you can use the Aquarium Pharm fungus treatment along with the remainder of your antibiotic treatment. But I would first read the labels of the Triple Sulfa and the Fungus Cure to see if it specifically says that you shouldn't. If you shouldn't I would determine which part of the disease looks worse -- the red streaks or the white cottony fuzz and treat accordingly. How many more days of antibiotic do you have to go?

 

[An t-iasg]

P.S. To answer your other questions -- When you saw the red spots and streaks, I think you made a good choice to start an antibiotic first. The fungus infection could have started because the fish was weakened by the first infection. If you do use the antibiotic with the fungus med, watch for signs of stress (as you should do anytime when treating). Loss of color and listlessness are some signs of stress.

 

[bgcheese]

I just wanted to add some information on this topic if you are still watching this. I have had the same problems in the past in newly established tanks. It seemed to happen right after cleaning the tank.I found the cause of the problems was the tank was not cycling correctly and bad bacteria where growing in tank.

To fix this problem don't stir up the tank too much when cleaning and add a cycling chemincal I personally like STRESS_ZYME. Reducing the amount of food and staying away from food pellets for the first few months also helps.

Labyrinth fish especially gouramis seem to have a hard time with alot of the meds so keep the doses lower than recomended and they should get better over time.

 

[techiegirl]

ok here's an update...
when I read your post An t-iasg, I went out the same night (Monday) and bought a product called Fungus Care by Aquarium Pharm.
It worked out perfect cuz you add it every 48 hours and then do a water change and that matches up with my water change for the Triple Sulfa. And it is ok to use both at the same time according to the product label.
The Fungus Care turns the water green which is kind of weird, but it says the carbon will remove the color when you put it back in.
Ok so how is my gourami?
Well.... he acts fine but he doesn't look so good!
The sore is now open in the middle a little, and it is really hard to tell if this is getting better or worse! :?
Yesterday was the last dose of Triple Sulfa, and I need to change 25% water and add more Fungus Care today.
The directions say I can continue another treatment of Triple Sulfa if needed.
How do I know it is needed?
I mean, it is going to take time to heal I imagine - do I continue with the antiobiotics til then?
Also, should I be adding Stresszyme with the water changes while medicating?
And, should I add aquarium salt as well to help with the healing?
I feel so bad for the little guy, but he just swims along like there is no problem.

 

[techiegirl]

another update....
ok gourami is definitely not looking good..
the sores are not better....
there are a total of 3 now.... the original huge one in front and to the side of his dorsal fin, one on his lower lip/mouth, and one on his dorsal fin.
And one side looks like someone took 3-4 tiny slices with a razor blade.
:?
I did a water change and added more Fungus Cure and a little aquarium salt.
I need to buy more antibiotic, but since it is not improving, should I try something different? Do I need to filter the existing meds out with carbon before I add something new?
I don't have a digital cam - I took some pics tonight and can develop and scan them tomorrow and post - I hope it isn't too late -- he's been fighting for awhile now.
thanks

 

[An t-iasg]

Oh no, techiegirl, sorry to hear this. If you change medications, you should use carbon to take the first medicine out. But that may take one to two days, depending on how big the tank is. Do you think the fish can go that long without meds? How big is the tank? You could do a 50% water change and then that would pull some med out too, so hopefully the carbon would only be needed for about 24 hours.

This is kind of a hard call. Sometimes you do need the second course of antibiotic to make a difference. Go ahead and use a second course of Triple Sulfa with the Fungus Cure if you think it is helping. If you don't think it did anything, or he's getting worse, then try something else. Then you have to spend money on a different medicine, but you need more antibiotics anyway, right? I would try Jungle Fungus Eliminator. It's a yellow powder, in a big jar, and it says it treats fungal and bacterial infections. One time I thought a previous betta was going to die. He didn't move for a week. But this med helped tremendously.

I wouldn't worry about adding Stress-Zyme now. It is bacteria that's supposed to cycle a tank. I did use this for a few weeks and I don't think it helped me. (I have used Bio-Spira from Marineland a few times. It actually cycled a tank in 1 to 3 days. It isn't available right now -- but hopefully soon!) You need to change water in a QT tank every day or two anyway so ammonia shouldn't build up. Also, the med that you use would probably end up killing the Stress-Zyme bacteria.

Good luck and I hope this helps!

 

[bgcheese]

I am sorry to say I think your gourami probably isn't going to make it. I have had one that got like that and he didn't last more than a day and all the meds in world doesn't help. The antibiotic is the only thing that helped. But the problem is gourami's don't seem to react well to medicine. I think your are stuck in the wait and see area now, recoverly is slow you will see the white stuff go away and then the red areas underneath will show until there skin grows back it leaves scares I have a gourami that made it through a bad fungus about 2 years ago and he has scars all over one side. But I lost one other fish during that same problem. Once the fungus gets near there head chances of survival is low.