electric blue ram and discus rubbing themselves against plants/rocks

[candymancan]

Only these fish are rubbing there gills against rocks and plants..

No idea why..

Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10-20
Ph 7.4 - 7.6

temps are 84-86f


Any ideas ? I figured maybe its ich because my tank had ich recently... but this discus I just got today and hes rubbing himself against plants every now and then, and ive never seen my electric blue ram do this until today too hes swims fast and smacks himself against objects.

My PH used to be 6.6, but I have a red tiger lotus and while it grows super fast and I noticed my nitrates are deff under control now, even after a week they are still in the 10-20 range.. I think because it grows so fast its literally taking all the CO2 in the water out even though I don't dose co2 and thus my ph went up to 7.4, because I never had ph at 7.4 before it was always 6.6-6.8 and a week after getting this plant it went up...

I mean the water in the store I got the discus though it was 7.4 as well, so its not like I put the discus through a ph shock

 

[Brookster123]

What size tank? Who's in it? That's kind of a lot of nitrates for those fish..

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[candymancan]

Its the 55g, I have 2 anglefish, 3 other rams, some gold barbs, bunch neon tetra's and other smaller tetra's./. No one bothers eachother in this tank.. the angles don't even care about anyone they are friendly.

So should I get the nitrates lower ? I have some de-nitrate from seachem I bought and I was thinking of tossing some in my hang on back filter and removing the filter pad itself and lowering the water flow and see how well this stuff lowers the nitrates.. I cant seem to get the nitrates under 10-20ppm though.. the tests are always honey orange in color.. I did a 50% water change today and its still at 10-20.

Could this be why they are rubbing their gills ? The water at the petstore had 5ppm nitrate and my tank has 10-20 since I just got the discus it cant be a parasite.. The electric blue ram has never done this before till today so I dunno what to say



EDIT: BTW the reason why I say 10-20 is because API little chart that you hold the liquid test tubes against is really impossible to tell the color diff between 10 and 20.. On the big chart 10-20 are both exactly the same color orange,, but on the smaller single sized color card... its 100% clear my water is a 10ppm nitrates not 20.

Ijust don't know what chart to believe.. the single card where pumkin orange is 10 and dark orange/red is 20.. Or the big color card where both 10 and 20 look exactly the same color

 

[Brookster123]

Discus or angels?

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[candymancan]

I have 2 palm sized angles in the 55g, and this discus is a 2-3 inch cobalt blue discus they only had 1.. I have 3 electric blue rams.. only the large adult is doing the gill smacking, but the medium sized juvie is breathing hard.. The other 3 rams are breathing fine and not smacking themselves.

I have 8 neon tetra's 4 glow lights, they are all fine, I have 5 gold barbs they are ok.. but I have noticed 1 smacks himself sometimes.. The others are serape tetra's and they are all fine too

 

[dragon14]

Our betta likes to brush against things as he swims. I think it's just part of who he is/his personality. He doesn't speficially go to rub against things though.

Best of luck to you and your fish friends!

 

[candymancan]

here are pics of the two in question

 

[Rivercats]

Fish can have ich in their gills which can't be seen without ever having any visible on their bodies.

 

[dragon14]

If it's in their gills though, does it ever manifest elsewhere? If not, how would you know?

 

[Angela1108]

It will eventually if it is ick.

I also agree it sounds like ick- especially if you already had issues with it. I would consider bumping up the heat a doing the salt trick for ich assuming it is ok for the discus. (I know they are super sensitive- so wait for a discus person to chime in)


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[treemanone2003]

Discus person. There's too many variables without enough info first. First off, it sounds as though you just add fish without any QT. Bad with any fish, and even worse with Discus. Second, Discus NEED to be in groups of 5 or more in an established tank. The smaller they are, the more feedings and WC's they need to reach full size, otherwise you'll wind up stunting them. And I can go on but let me not stray and stick with the topic.

What you're describing is flashing. This is fairly common in Discus and could be a couple things. First I would suspect is it could be gill flukes. Second guess, if it's only intermittent, is it has an itch. Happens to us and it can happen to them.

Now here's what I would do. IMMEDIATELY, remove the Discus and put it in a QT tank. Preferably a 20g so there's room to swim. No substrate, plants, etc. you want to be able to see any detritus. Temp 82-86°. Treat only with WC's 2-3 x daily of at least 50% with treated water. You should see dramatic changes quickly. You could also put the ram in there for company and monitoring purposes also.


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[treemanone2003]

That appears to be a blue diamond you have there. Also, IMO/E, the serpae tetra may be a little too much for a lone Discus and even a group or 5-6. As the tetras mature, they can become quite nippy towards Discus. I've found cardinals or black skirts to be the better option.


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[candymancan]

I have a lot of fish in this tank. no one bothers the discus

I have

1x red flame gourami
2x Electric blue ram ( 1 adult 1 juvie)
1x electric blue balloon ram
3x gold barb
1x black skirt tetra (I had like 5 like 5 years ago but they all died randomly and ive had him for ever, don't ask me to stock 5 or 6 more plz)
4x glow light tetra
8x neon tetra
4x serape tetra
1x red tail shark
3x black neon tetra


I plan to remove the grourami and some other fish though when my 10g bowfront cycles.. its between 0 and 0.25ppm nitrite so im keeping them in this tank for now

No one bothers anyone the tank is by my desk so I watch it for hours when playing video games or on my pc. The discus just slowly swims around the tank he hasn't scraped against anything in the last day ina half now..

The adult ram though is I just saw him smack his gills against the plants.. As for qauntine tank my betta is in the tank now.. he has major issues with his eye clouding and his upper jaw beating eatin away so im dosing salt, api fungus cure, and api triple sulfa.. I don't want to put my 2 fish in there with the betta they will kill it.

As for the ich, my temps haven't changed, they are still at 86f and have been for 4 weeks now. Last time I saw ich spots was a week ago. The tank had salt in it for about 2 weeks.. and I have been doing water changes the last 3 days to remove it, this was before I got the discus.

As for getting 5 more.. The local store only had one so I got that one, and hes been in there tanks for 3 weeks now, it was at a petco.. and the discus was only $15 it was on sale 75% so I snatched it before some kid thought itd be a cool fish to get..

I think I made the right choice.. I don't know discus very well but I have been into fish tanks for 15+ years.. would you rather some other inexperienced person get the discus ? I'll try to order maybe 1-2 more 2-3 inch discus online.


Can discus handle Aquarium salt ? Should I add a little more salt back to the tank ?

 

[treemanone2003]

Actually I don't think you made the right choice. Cheap fish are not good, and good fish, especially Discus, are not cheap. There's a reason why that $50 Discus was only $15. Also, all those major chain stores run a "common" filtration system. So basically, if one tank has an issue, they all do. Another thing is that until they reach adult size, they require lots of WC's and that never happens at those places.

As for the salt, NO. Discus do not need it, nor can they for long periods. A day maybe at the most. As for ordering 1-2 more of 2-3" online, that's probably another poor choice. 2-3" Discus require lots of feedings and WC's to grow out into beautiful healthy specimens. Without doing that, they will remain stunted and you'll get maybe 12-24 months out of a fish that can prosper for up to 10 years.

Something else that you need to get under control for them to thrive is your nitrates. Gotta get that down to 5 or less. They do much better with those numbers than the 10-20 range. I've got close to 10 years of on and off experience with them and the ones I have now are are from 4.5" (smallest) to 6.5" (largest). I can stick my hand in the tank and literally pet them. They eat from my fingertips. I don't use a net when I need to move them but simply scoop them up by hand. I do 50% WC's 3x/week and 100% on weekends. I have them in a bb, 55g with light background to keep them from going dark or peppering. I made a lot of mistakes in the beginning from lack of knowledge and trying to pass along great info.


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[kirkland795]

I agree with the discus advice you've been given by the person before me. I have kept freshwater fish my whole life and decided to try discus fish and it's a whole new ball game. It is very hard work(lots of water changes) and takes a lot of dedication to get a small discus to grow to a good size. Discus require extremely clean water which is why I keep a bare bottom tank. Like the advice you've been given I would definitely invest in getting more discus once you get your parameters/possible ick problem resolved. The bigger discus are pricey but don't require as much work as trying to grow out a small one.

I had an ick out break by learning the hard way that I should have quarantined the new bushy nose pleco I bought. I just used temperature and good water changes to eliminate it. I followed this method SimplyDiscus.com: <I>Ichthyophthirius Multifiliis</I> (White Spot) Infections in Fish by Ruth Francis-Floyd and Peggy Reed

Good luck!

 

[candymancan]

Actually I don't think you made the right choice. Cheap fish are not good, and good fish, especially Discus, are not cheap. There's a reason why that $50 Discus was only $15. Also, all those major chain stores run a "common" filtration system. So basically, if one tank has an issue, they all do. Another thing is that until they reach adult size, they require lots of WC's and that never happens at those places.

As for the salt, NO. Discus do not need it, nor can they for long periods. A day maybe at the most. As for ordering 1-2 more of 2-3" online, that's probably another poor choice. 2-3" Discus require lots of feedings and WC's to grow out into beautiful healthy specimens. Without doing that, they will remain stunted and you'll get maybe 12-24 months out of a fish that can prosper for up to 10 years.

Something else that you need to get under control for them to thrive is your nitrates. Gotta get that down to 5 or less. They do much better with those numbers than the 10-20 range. I've got close to 10 years of on and off experience with them and the ones I have now are are from 4.5" (smallest) to 6.5" (largest). I can stick my hand in the tank and literally pet them. They eat from my fingertips. I don't use a net when I need to move them but simply scoop them up by hand. I do 50% WC's 3x/week and 100% on weekends. I have them in a bb, 55g with light background to keep them from going dark or peppering. I made a lot of mistakes in the beginning from lack of knowledge and trying to pass along great info. View attachment 250926


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Well thanks for the advice but I disagree with your cheap fish aren't good quote.. Spending more money doesn't mean what your buying is any better.. That can work with just about everything, and just because it was on sale doesn't mean its a bad fish lol... and as for cleaning the tanks. There nitrates were 0-5ppm.. Yes I know they share the same system I used to work in a petsmart.

As for my decision being good or bad, I disagree I personally think I saved this fish from a agonizing death by some inexperienced fish keeper who NEVER cleans the tanks or changes the water would you rather some person who tops off the tank with nitrates in the 100+ range buy the fish or someone like me.. and personally what your saying is I should never have gotten a discus, I bet you were an expert when you first got one right ? I appritiate youre advice but I don't need to be discouraged on trying new things out. Sorry not trying to be rude I know your helping me out and I appritiate it, but dislike people who basically tell others to not try new things because of how hard it can be

Yes im new to discus but ive had fish tanks since I was 9 years old, and I am now 28 years old. I have 7 in my house and I haven't had a fish die on me in about 3 years now, cept a few platies from collumnaris



I change my water often.. If he needs lower nitrates then ill just do 2 weekly water changes instead of 1. And im going to be removing some fish soon for the 10g bowfront so the bioload wont be as high as well, I have enough plants in my tank to where my nitrates never get above 20 even if I don't do water changes, the only reason they are kinda high well high for him is because I have too many fish in the tank, I have like 10 too many





I wont use salt then, I'll just keep the nitrates low and leave it at that, thanks for the advice

 

[kirkland795]

I recommend you join the simply discus forum as well. Tons of info for those new to keeping discus.

 

[treemanone2003]

Well thanks for the advice but I disagree with your cheap fish aren't good quote.. Spending more money doesn't mean what your buying is any better.. That can work with just about everything, and just because it was on sale doesn't mean its a bad fish lol... and as for cleaning the tanks. There nitrates were 0-5ppm.. Yes I know they share the same system I used to work in a petsmart.

As for my decision being good or bad, I disagree I personally think I saved this fish from a agonizing death by some inexperienced fish keeper who NEVER cleans the tanks or changes the water would you rather some person who tops off the tank with nitrates in the 100+ range buy the fish or someone like me.. and personally what your saying is I should never have gotten a discus, I bet you were an expert when you first got one right ? I appritiate youre advice but I don't need to be discouraged on trying new things out. Sorry not trying to be rude I know your helping me out and I appritiate it, but dislike people who basically tell others to not try new things because of how hard it can be

Yes im new to discus but ive had fish tanks since I was 9 years old, and I am now 28 years old. I have 7 in my house and I haven't had a fish die on me in about 3 years now, cept a few platies from collumnaris



I change my water often.. If he needs lower nitrates then ill just do 2 weekly water changes instead of 1. And im going to be removing some fish soon for the 10g bowfront so the bioload wont be as high as well, I have enough plants in my tank to where my nitrates never get above 20 even if I don't do water changes, the only reason they are kinda high well high for him is because I have too many fish in the tank, I have like 10 too many





I wont use salt then, I'll just keep the nitrates low and leave it at that, thanks for the advice

Fair enough, you can disagree with anything I say, but I assure you, cheap Discus are not good. It's good you worked at Petco as I'm sure you gained a lot of knowledge there.
Perhaps you did save the fish from an agonizing death by an inexperienced fish keeper, but at this point it's only in the hands of an inexperienced Discus keeper and this is where I'm trying to step in and offer you some quality help. If you feel that I personally think you shouldn't have gotten it, you're actually quite wrong. What I said was to increase the number in your tank and only ordering 1-2 more was a bad idea Two totally different items. Also, I never said not to try new things.

I think it's great you've been keeping fish for that amount of time !!! I too have been keeping them since that age and I'm 42. My fish die of old age, because as I stated above, I do WC's of 50% 3x/week and 100% on weekends. It's something I've gotten into the habit of since keeping the "Kings of the Aquarium".

Two WC's a week for that one growing up are pretty much helping it survive. There are quite a few other things that will enable that lone Discus to thrive and grow into a 7"-10" beauty, as I discussed in post 11. As the kirkland pointed out, perhaps a trip over to Simply Discus will help to clarify some of the things that you're not familiar with. I'm a member there and a moderator of threads. hth......