Go Back   Aquarium Advice - Aquarium Forum Community > Freshwater > Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish
Click Here to Login

Join Aquarium Advice Today
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com
 
Old 10-19-2009, 12:54 AM   #11
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: I live at home with my parents in San Diego, but am currently in a dorm at Cal State Long Beach
Posts: 16
Send a message via AIM to akmandlarge Send a message via Yahoo to akmandlarge Send a message via Skype™ to akmandlarge
Well that's a bummer that my strips aren't good luckily they were on sale for only $4. What exact kind and brand do you have/recommend? I am kind of on a budget, but I want to get this right.

I guess my vocabulary isn't correct when I said that I cycled my tank. All that I meant by that was that I let the new water run through the tank and filter in order to stabilize and get to a normal temperature. The reason I took my fish out was because when I take out 40% of the water the filter no longer works (because the tube doesn't reach down far enough) and then when I added the new water a lot of stuff that my gravel vac didn't get was floating around in the water (poop and seaweed), and I wanted all of that to get collected by the filter before I put my fish in it. Also, all the gravel and plants get disturbed when I pour the new water in. Should I have left him in? I just thought it would be kind of crazy for him. I kept him in a bowl in the same exact water that i took him out of, and then i eased him back in at the same temperature.

Today he had been doing better, but then tonight he is back at the bottom of the tank. Maybe I'm not giving it enough time, but so far nothing has changed. I will keep checking the water levels every day to see if they are staying consistent.

He obviously still has his finrot but otherwise he is active and definitely maintains his big appetite.
__________________

__________________
akmandlarge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 11:32 AM   #12
AA Team Emeritus
 
jsoong's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 4,222
The API Master kit is good (& reasonably priced - $20 or so online). <Some lfs will do water testing for free - jsut make sure they don't cheap out & use the stripes!>

At any rate, the pH test is prob OK using the stripes ... If you can test your tank AND tap water pH's, we cna at least get a start.

Moving the fish (and having him in a small container for 12 hrs) stress him out. That is esp. true if you net him. <I don't even own a net. I catch my fish using small plastic containers so they are never out of water.> Turning the filter off is no big thing when doing pwc's. It is the same as you moving the fish to an unfiltered bowl ...

It sounds like you have a lot of MULM in the tank, if doing water changes is kicking up a mess. I would suggest doing more frequent & through gravel vacs ... Goldfish are messy. You need to keep the tank clean ... having the stuff sitting in the gravel isn't that good. It is contributing to poor water quality.

In a planted tank, I would suggest doing pwc by thoroughly vacuuming out the surface of the gravel. If that means taking out 50 or 60% of the water, so be it. You can leave the fish in the tank during the process. When you refill, you need to make sure the water is already at the tank's temp, dechlorinated & matched in parameters (salt, etc.) Using a separate bucket to prepare water ahead of time is helpful here. I use an airline (or other small) tubing to siphon the water from the bucket into the tank. I take 15-30 min. to refill the tank. This minimize any shock from changing water parameters, but the slower water flow won't kick up all the mess inside the tank.

The fact that the fish is better immediately after a pwc & getting worse again suggest that there is a water quality issue. I rather suspect that the tank is not cycled. <Or the cycle had been disrupted with your previous antibiotic use.> Read this for more:
http://www.aquariumadvice.com/articl...le-/Page1.html

I would suggest doing daily pwc's (& gravel vacs) for the next week or so to see how he responds. <This is a "best guess" solution. I can be more certain with 1. your tap water parameters & 2. Test results on tank NH3/NO2.>
__________________

__________________
80 gal FW with 30 gal DIY wet/dry/sump.
9 fancy golds, 1 hillstream loaches, 1 rubber-lip pleco (C. thomasi), 3 SAEs, small school of white cloud minnows, planted.
jsoong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 11:34 AM   #13
AA Team Emeritus
 
jsoong's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 4,222
One other thing ... I was suggesting salt for the fish ... If you have live plants, some will not tolerate salt. You should go no more that 0.05% for most plants. If you have to go higher (say to treat parasite) you should remove the plants or they will die.
__________________
80 gal FW with 30 gal DIY wet/dry/sump.
9 fancy golds, 1 hillstream loaches, 1 rubber-lip pleco (C. thomasi), 3 SAEs, small school of white cloud minnows, planted.
jsoong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 07:02 PM   #14
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: I live at home with my parents in San Diego, but am currently in a dorm at Cal State Long Beach
Posts: 16
Send a message via AIM to akmandlarge Send a message via Yahoo to akmandlarge Send a message via Skype™ to akmandlarge
I hope this is normal and not contradicting itself, but today the levels are:

GH: ~180 KH: ~180 PH: ~7.5 NO2: 0 NO3: 0

The only change is that the GH went up. I think that the KH got a little lower, but the test kits goes from 120 right to 180, so I kind of have to guess in between.

I measured my tap water and the pH is much higher in the untreated water form the tap. The tap water levels are:

GH: 180 KH: 180 pH: 8 NO2: 0 NO3: 0

Again, these are only approximate. Does the API master test kit give you an exact number?
__________________
akmandlarge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-19-2009, 11:54 PM   #15
AA Team Emeritus
 
jsoong's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 4,222
Well, a liquid kit would give you more accurate numbers for KH & GH, but you don't really need that. A ball-park number will do. <The liquid kit is needed to give you accurate numbers for NH3/NO2 & NO3.>

Your KH/GH number in the tap is in line with the tap's pH number. To be sure, leave a sample of tap water out overnight & retest to make sure that pH si stable.

Your tank ph should be close to your tap pH. The fact that it wasn't (6.9 to start) would indicate a badly neglected tank. <Unless you ahve peat or driftwood or something to deliberately drop the pH in the tank.> Fish waste & other decomposing matter make acids. Your water has adaquate KH, and should be able to hold a steady pH. A dropping pH in the tank would indicate accumulation of a LOT of waste. <You would be surprised at how much poop a goldfish make!>

The droppong pH is not good for the fish, and neither is the waste in the tank. The best thing to do is to do pwc (25% or so) & good gravel vac daily or every other day to clean up the tank. Your tank pH should be the same as the tap water pH after it had sit out & equilibrated to air. you did the 40% change & it is now 7.5, so it is on the way up. You will prob need to do the extra pwc's for a week or 2 to get the tank pH back to the tap pH. After that, you would want to do enough pwc's to maintain it. <As said before, weekly 30-40% changes is the rule for a goldfish in a small tank.>
__________________
80 gal FW with 30 gal DIY wet/dry/sump.
9 fancy golds, 1 hillstream loaches, 1 rubber-lip pleco (C. thomasi), 3 SAEs, small school of white cloud minnows, planted.
jsoong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 08:05 PM   #16
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: I live at home with my parents in San Diego, but am currently in a dorm at Cal State Long Beach
Posts: 16
Send a message via AIM to akmandlarge Send a message via Yahoo to akmandlarge Send a message via Skype™ to akmandlarge
Ok, I will look into getting the liquid kit, but for now here are my test strip results for today in my tank:

GH: ~120 KH: ~80-120 pH: ~7.5 NO2: 0 NO3: 0

I left a TAP water sample untreated overnight and when I tested it my results were:

GH: ~180 KH: ~80 pH: ~7.5 NO2: 0 NO3: 0

I am going to do another PWC in my tank tonight to get some of the mes out of there.


Added info: No, I do not have any live plants or peat or driftwood. Also, I am assuming that the very initial pH reading I gave you (of 6.8) was incorrect since I am pretty sure that it is an unreliable meter. Thank you, for pointing this out to me.
__________________
akmandlarge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 08:06 PM   #17
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: I live at home with my parents in San Diego, but am currently in a dorm at Cal State Long Beach
Posts: 16
Send a message via AIM to akmandlarge Send a message via Yahoo to akmandlarge Send a message via Skype™ to akmandlarge
and for the tank KH i put 80-120 because the color was right in between the two shades of blue
__________________
akmandlarge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-20-2009, 08:07 PM   #18
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: I live at home with my parents in San Diego, but am currently in a dorm at Cal State Long Beach
Posts: 16
Send a message via AIM to akmandlarge Send a message via Yahoo to akmandlarge Send a message via Skype™ to akmandlarge
and the (6.8) that turned itself into a smiley face was supposed to say ( 6.8 )
__________________
akmandlarge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-21-2009, 11:59 PM   #19
AA Team Emeritus
 
jsoong's Avatar


 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Edmonton, Canada
Posts: 4,222
OK, your tap water has a bit of "volatile base" in it, since the pH went from 8.0 to 7.5 overnight. <That base is likely NaOH or Ca(OH)2 which the water co. added to decrease pipe corrosion.>

At any rate, now that you know the tap water will settle out at 7.5, you can be assured that the 7.5 in the tank is normal, and any drop in that would indicate that you are falling behind in your water changes.

Since the initial pH was inaccurate, you might reason that the ammonia reading of zero might be in error as well. <If it is the same meter.> I would still be suspicious that the tank may be cycling & do extra pwc's on spec. <At least until you start to see some nitrates.>

Since you were talking about plants, I thought those might be live. Without live plants, I would go ahead & gravel vac not just the surface, but the depths of the gravel as well. Getting rid of as much accumulated crud as possible is going to help with water quality.

BTW, how is the fish doing? Is he acting better with all the intensive tank cleaning?
__________________
80 gal FW with 30 gal DIY wet/dry/sump.
9 fancy golds, 1 hillstream loaches, 1 rubber-lip pleco (C. thomasi), 3 SAEs, small school of white cloud minnows, planted.
jsoong is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-22-2009, 01:22 AM   #20
Aquarium Advice Apprentice
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: I live at home with my parents in San Diego, but am currently in a dorm at Cal State Long Beach
Posts: 16
Send a message via AIM to akmandlarge Send a message via Yahoo to akmandlarge Send a message via Skype™ to akmandlarge
Thank you so much for all of this help. I was extremely busy today and I did not get a chance to do my pwc, but I really really am going to do it tomorrow. I also ordered the liquid master test kit, so soon I will have an "accurate" reading for all of my numbers, including ammonia. What exactly am I looking for to determine that my tank has cycled? More NO3 and otherwise consistent levels?

My fish had not really been improving (but not getting worse either), until today I noticed that his fins are growing back! I didn't want to jynx it, but on the edges where it seems to be "shredded" there is a very thin layer of skin growing back. It is about 1 mm long right now (he is probably missing about 5), but I'll take it. As of yesterday he was still stressing out, sitting at the bottom motionless, but I have not seen him doing that today. However, as I said above, I have been busy today and out of my room so I wouldn't have seen it if he did.

On a tangent, I have some pictures I would like your opinion on. See, he has had "fin rot" before, but it looked different. The first time he ever had it, he had it concurrently with ich. his fins looked more chopped than shredded, and they reacted very quickly to a Maracyn II and he healed within a few days. Here is the picture of his fins during this:


But now, his fins are shredded almost in a way that looks like it could be natural, except that I know it is not. They are shredded in tiny points instead of an obvious stunt in growth. Here is a current picture (kind of hard to distinguish, but also hard to take a picture of!):



Do you have any thoughts about what causes it to look differently?
__________________

__________________
akmandlarge is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
behavior, finrot

Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about them on AquariumAdvice.com

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
finrot? justrelax Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 4 08-31-2006 11:36 PM
Guppy has finrot satu Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 1 04-10-2006 01:51 PM
Fighters with finrot!! Honcho Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 3 12-16-2005 08:47 PM
Unusual betta behavior. Mr. R Freshwater & Brackish - General Discussion 5 09-10-2004 08:59 AM
Finrot Fantail Fan Freshwater & Brackish - Unhealthy Fish 12 02-12-2004 07:45 PM







» Photo Contest Winners








Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.