Finrot /new tank/ph

[Tonkel21]

Hi there. I am new to this forum and I have a few questions.
We have two goldfish , one for 3 years and a black moor a limitless over a year. Right now they are in a 15 gallon but we have set up a 30 to move them. We went on a vacation a few weeks ago and my parents seemed to have overfed. Within a few days our goldfish was very lethargic and clamped fin. So I did a 50% water change, cleaned out all the gravel and rinsed off one filter and replaced one. He responded well , and is now doing fine. ( he did recover from a bout with ich when we got the new fish). So after doing this , the water seemed a bit cloudy, had pet store test it and both nitrates and ammonia were high. Did another water change, levels still seemed high. It he meantime, the black moor started showing signs of fin rot. On Thursday I started with melafix, and he seemed to respond a bit but still had a lot of white, so yesterday I added pimafix to the regime. This morning he seems better, less white on him. The current tank readings are: nitrate -0, nitrite-0, ph 6 - , ammonia 4-6. We set up the new tank and are running one of our old filters and plan to move the goldfish later today. My concern with him is that the new tank ph is 7.4.. As for the black moor, should I keep him in old tank and continue medicating while doing water changes or will he respond better immediately in a tank without the ammonia. Assuming that an ammonia spike will occur in the new tank, would that be too stressful? I have added some salt to both tanks and I did add some ammonia detoxifier which I know can affect the ammonia readings. Thanks for your help

 

[librarygirl]

Ammonia is 4? That's a deadly amount. This is the 15 gal? I'd move the filter from the 15 to the 30 and run it alongside the new filter for the 30 gal to bring over any beneficial bacteria that has formed. The fish would do better in a larger tank with more water volume and without ammonia but the fish will likely produce ammonia again so you need to test daily and keep on top of it with water changes; don't let it rise to more than .5 at most. What filtration do you have on both tanks? Goldies require at least 10x the filtration for your size tank so it's also possible that the filter you have on the 15 gal isn't large enough to house the amount of bacteria that two goldies need.

 

[Laser]

The best thing you can do is give the fish clean water everyday. I would suggest a 50% water change every day or every other day. Melafix may or may not help, but the clean water definitely will. I wouldn't worry much about the pH difference. If there is a pH difference you can always drip acclimate the fish to the new tank to get him used to the new pH.

Personally, I would leave the sick one in the 15 by itself and give it a chance to heal. Just make sure the ammonia levels stay low by doing water changes as needed.

 

[jlk]

Welcome to AA!!!! I would move both fish (drip acclimate to new tank water) to the new tank along with the old filter/media. Fin rot is typically caused by unhealthy water- the conditions in the 15g are pretty dangerous with an ammonia level of 4-6ppm. The very low ph will also make the finrot difficult to heal. They both need to be out of this tank. I would just treat with LOTS of healthy water- this may mean daily 50% water changes with a good water conditioner. You then can clean out the 15g and have it in case the moor needs to be moved back for additional treatment.

Melafix/pimafix are exactly the same thing and honestly do not doing anything more than healthy water will accomplish. If the moors infection does not start to improve over the next week, additional means can be considered for treatment.

Do you have your own liquid test kit for ammonia, nitrite, nitrate & ph? You mention the pet store testing your water. Please invest in a good liquid test kit such as the API fw master test kit as soon as possible. You will need to test the water daily in the 30g because its not cycled yet and do water changes as needed to keep these guys healthy. You should also test your tap water for ammonia, nitrite & nitrate. Please ask if you have any questions!

I just learned about cycling but I already have fish. What now?! - Aquarium Advice

http://www.myaquariumclub.com/goldfish-101-11174823.html

 

[Tonkel21]

Thanks. Yes we do have our own drop test kit now. In the 15 gallon I used bottled( but not distilled) for water changes. With the new tank that would just be too much so we are conditioning the water. I did remove the gravel and replace with new when I first cleaned out the 15 gal and think I may have removed all the good bacteria. From all I've read the cleaner new tank would be better than meds, I am just concerned about the stress. He does seem better today , but there still seems to be a bit of white at the edges of the tail. He is moving around more though.

 

[Tonkel21]

We have been using two filters on the tank and plan on using the new one as well as one of the old ones for the new tank.

 

[jlk]

Can you possibly post a pic of the moors tail/fins? Are they ragged/breaking off/holes or are they evenly white all around the edges? If you need help with posting pics, just ask!

 

[GNarnian]

Welcome! You said you rinsed one and replaced one. When you rinsed one, what kind of water did you use?

 

[Tonkel21]

Can you possibly post a pic of the moors tail/fins? Are they ragged/breaking off/holes or are they evenly white all around the edges? If you need help with posting pics, just ask!

There are no holes, but they were ragged and breaking off. Now they just see evenly white around the edges. He did have white around his scales and gills too, but that has cleared up. I will try to post a picture.

 

[Tonkel21]

I rinsed in tap water.

 

[Tonkel21]

I have tested my tap water and it is showing a low level of ammonia, but the conditioner I used on the new tank says it detoxifies chlorine, chloramine and ammonia.

 

[Tonkel21]

Three images are from Friday, the one with the shortest fins is today.

 

[jlk]

Thanks! Yes, he does have fin rot. I am bit concerned because it looks like the rays (bones) are breaking off- its not just tissue damage. Which pic is from today?

 

[Tonkel21]

The top. And yes he did have some of the spines appear to become soft and break off.

 

[GNarnian]

I rinsed in tap water.

Unfortunately, when you rinsed your filter with tap water, you probably killed all of the beneficial bacteria in the filter. :-/ when you go to clean your filters next time, use some old tank water. That will preserve the BB on the filter pads.

 

[jlk]

Ok, lets give him a few days in healthy water & see if theres any improvement. If it starts to get worse, then he will need further treatment with a gram negative antibiotic to stop the infection before it progresses any further. Unfortunately, once rays are damaged or destroyed, they typically will not grow back or will only grow back to a portion of their previous size. He may not regain the entire original length of his tail/fins but it shouldnt affect his quality of life.

 

[Tonkel21]

Just so I get this right, your saying I should move him to the new tank? Should I continue the medications or see if the clean water and lower ph is enough?

 

[jlk]

Isn't the ph in 30 higher? Yes, move him & see how he does with lots of healthy water. The melafix is useless. If he needs further treatment, it needs to be actual antibiotics.

 

[Tonkel21]

Yes it is higher in the new tank. That's what I am planning to do. His condition seems to have moved quickly, how long should I wait to see improvement before I try the antibiotics?

 

[jlk]

Give him a day or two to adjust. In the meantime, pick up some meds. Petsmart or any decent lfs carries Maracyn Plus and Maracyn2- either should work but the Plus is a bit stronger & more broad spectrum thus a better option. Just dont accidentally get the regular Maracyn because this will not help. If he looks worse in a day, start treating. Just make sure you keep an eye on your tank numbers. Keep us posted!!