First case of ich

[Cactuspixie]

Grr. Still no spots but 2 have begun flashing

 

[Taiken5968]

Grr. Still no spots but 2 have begun flashing

When you say flashing, are you talking about when they scratch Themselves on substrate?

 

[Cactuspixie]

When you say flashing, are you talking about when they scratch Themselves on substrate?

Yeah- they are still doing it, but still no spots. They are all getting cranky again. One brasiliensis chases everyone else, and seems to be trying to bite the other brasiliensis. The spilurum that have paired off have gone feral again (psycho really), and the other 3 spilurum are chasing each other and the brasiliensis also. My poor plecos live in fear and I couldn't tell you whether my kuhlis are are alive or have been eaten.

I'm going to have to get rid of all the cichlids on my next day off. I'll give them to an lfs that can quarantine them (a lot can't now because all the tanks are connected)

 

[Taiken5968]

Yeah you still have ick. It's likely that you didn't keep the meds in long enough. I usually use those fizz tabs they sell at per stores and Walmart. It's one tab per gallon. You also need to remove carbon from your filter. It will filter out meds. I usually leave the temp up and the meds in for 48 hours. Then do a %30 water change. And add half the amount of meds for that amount of water. After that I do a water change every other day and leave the temp up for 10 days. It's also good to Siphon your gravel during treatment. That is where a lot of the parasites hang out when they are in the polyp stage.

 

[Cactuspixie]

Yeah you still have ick. It's likely that you didn't keep the meds in long enough. I usually use those fizz tabs they sell at per stores and Walmart. It's one tab per gallon. You also need to remove carbon from your filter. It will filter out meds. I usually leave the temp up and the meds in for 48 hours. Then do a %30 water change. And add half the amount of meds for that amount of water. After that I do a water change every other day and leave the temp up for 10 days. It's also good to Siphon your gravel during treatment. That is where a lot of the parasites hang out when they are in the polyp stage.

I haven't used any meds- just heat, which is still up. I've been doing pwc with gravel vac every other day to keep the water clean and oxygenated as well as remove any parasites that may be in the substrate.
Just discovered the spawning pair of spilurum each have a single white spot on their tails.
Well I'll bump the temp from 30C to 32C over the next 24 hours and if they can all handle it, I'll leave it there for a few days.
If they can't I'll drain half the water and find some meds to throw at it. The meds I have on hand are either going to harm my plecos or bump off my snails (I can remove the mystery snails, but a million dying mts would wreak havoc)
I had ordered (and paid for) some para guard from Amazon, but I can't have it shipped here
I have $300 worth of aquarium stuff sitting in a warehouse over there now. Lol. Fat lot of good that's going to do

 

[Taiken5968]

I have used the fizz tabs with plecos. I used 2/3 of the normal dose. And they both were fine. Go for it. It will knock that stuff right out.

 

[Cactuspixie]

I have used the fizz tabs with plecos. I used 2/3 of the normal dose. And they both were fine. Go for it. It will knock that stuff right out.

I've never heard of fizz tabs, so I googled them. Are they called Tetra parasite guard? If so, we can't access them in Australia. We can get Tetra Ick Guard, which doesn't have any of the same active ingredients. Maybe its the prazantiquel that's banned, because there's a bottle of prazipro in my shipment that can't leave the US. :-( such a pain.

 

[Taiken5968]

I've never heard of fizz tabs, so I googled them. Are they called Tetra parasite guard? If so, we can't access them in Australia. We can get Tetra Ick Guard, which doesn't have any of the same active ingredients. Maybe its the prazantiquel that's banned, because there's a bottle of prazipro in my shipment that can't leave the US. :-( such a pain.

The tetra ick guard should work. I think that is the.same kind I bought last time. I have also used jungle brand ick clear fizz tabs. They worked just as well. I like using the fizz tabs they have always worked for me.

 

[Cactuspixie]

The tetra ick guard is malachite green and acriflavine. I had been warned to stay away from malachite green with scaleless fish such as plecos and loaches. Wouldn't it also discolor the water?

 

[Taiken5968]

The tetra ick guard is malachite green and acriflavine. I had been warned to stay away from malachite green with scaleless fish such as plecos and loaches. Wouldn't it also discolor the water?

I have used it with scaleless fish. I use about two thirds normal dose. It will cloud the water, but after the ick is gone that can be taken care I with water changes.

 

[bshenanagins]

A recommended treatment for scaleless fish is Rid Ich + I used it when my clowns brought Ich into my tank and they were completely covered in it. Looked like soft pretzels at a ball game. After treatment for about 2 weeks, I am happy to say they are still scurrying around my tank happy as can be. I also have rams in that tank

 

[Cactuspixie]

Thanks for the recommendations guys. It seems the difference between the two meds is that one has acriflavine with MG, while the other has formalin with MG.
I have got hold of a small 15g tank, so I think I will transfer all the cichlids to that and treat with whichever of those meds they have on the shelf at the pet store when I go in today.
It's just not going to be viable to treat them in the 170g tank, and I don't want to put my kuhlis at risk. I'll keep the main tank at 32C (89-90F) for a few more days and see how that goes.
As soon as the cichlids are cured I will trade them in at the lfs.

 

[Fishfur]

I think Malachite Green is one of the treatments that can permanently stain the silicone sealant. I don't know how dark the colour might get with one round of treatment, as I have never had to use it myself, but it can certainly leave permanent colour behind.

I once bought some used tanks from a goldfish breeder. They were 20 years old and in truly amazing shape for fish room tanks, but the silicone inside them was a very dark blue green colour. I asked why and was told it was the result of using Meth blue and Malachite Green. Even though they didn't leak, I resealed them, because of the colour and because of their age too.

I noted the post in this thread where the poster used less than the recommended dosage of meds, because of sensitive fish. I'd just like to comment that using less than a full dose may result in resistance later on.

It's exactly the same process that has resulted in so many antibiotic resistant bacteria and parasites being around today. If you have to take antibiotics, they usually have a label telling you to finish all the meds even if you feel fine before they're done, because if you don't, some of the organisms may survive and end up becoming resistant to the med. There is already at least one heat and salt resistant strain of ich.

So if you're going to use some type of medication, it is best to use the full dosage, even if you do have fish that are sensitive, or try some other treatment if there is one. Reducing the dosage may work today, but in future, it might result in the organisms becoming resistant, which might result in there being no treatment that will work on something, just as we have some infections in humans now that no antibiotic is able to cure. Parasites can acquire resistance just as easily as bacteria can.

 

[Fishlover3578]

What is safe for snails

 

[Fishfur]

Good question. I'd remove snails if at all possible. I'd put them in a bowl for the duration of treatment. Snails do not carry ich parasites, so if you take them out you can rinse them off in treated water and then put the back when the ich is gone. If you have a lot of snails, I'd treat the bowl as if were a Betta, with water changes to keep the water in good shape.

Copper based treatments are not safe for any inverts, so far as I know. Nerite snails can tolerate some salt, being brackish species in nature, but I don't know if Mystery or other snail species can tolerate salt at the levels required if you use it. I'm not sure if any of the other common treatments are safe either. You'd have to find out what is in anything you might want to use and look it up to find out if it's snail safe or not. I have a LOT of snails, so I hope I never have to deal with anything like Ich, cause it will be murder just finding all the snails. I have several that burrow into the substrate and are really hard to find most of the time, like Chocolate Poso snails.

Best thing is to research the ingredients of any proposed treatment to determine if it's invert safe or not.

 

[Fishlover3578]

Just wanted to know just in case

 

[Wiggles24]

Ramshorns can tolerate salt pretty well IME

 

[Cactuspixie]

I tore the tank apart yesterday and removed the cichlids. The only occupants of the 170g are plecos, kuhlis, and a bb goby (2nd one missing presumed eaten) plus the snails (which have laid a clutch of eggs above the water line).
I am continuing to treat that tank with heat: 32C

The cichlids are in a 38g tank being treated with API General Cure. I'd forgotten that I bought that off eBay. I used 4 sachets. Tomorrow I'll do a 25% pwc and dump another 4 sachets in.

That tank will now stay set up as my hospital/quarantine tank.

 

[Cactuspixie]

Well the heat has been cranked up in the DT a couple of weeks now, with no signs of sickness, so I will begin lowering it. I've had it covered with garbage bags and towels to keep the heat at 32C, so it will be nice to see in again
The cichlids in the QT have responded well to the treatment with API General Cure and have not flashed or otherwise shown signs of sickness in days. They are also much better behaved in the small tank! Grr. They are still being rehomed though. Along with a bunch of bristlenose. I'm shutting down one of my tanks. <gasp>