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Old 07-23-2003, 06:58 PM   #1
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fish rolling around

Hi,

Unfortunately, it appears as if one of my cichlid is on it's last leg (fin?). I came home today and fed them, and it looked like he just stayed at the bottom between plants and not moved at all. Finally, after he did move (not to eat though), he swam around the aquarium doing rolls over and over and over again. When he does rest at the bottom of the tank between the plants, his tail is up and his head is down, almost vertical. Does anybody know what could have happened to him? Furthermore, anybody know what I should do, if anything, to make him better?

The only thing I can think of is my Johanni has been pretty busy digging around my lavarock, and today, he has dug completely under it and it looked like the rock fell. Also, my nitrites were high but came down, and my ammonia was high but it has also come down. (The ammonia is at .5 to 1.0 ppm, and it was at about 6 to 7 ppm's two weeks ago). I added ammo-lock to the tank about a week to try to get the ammonia down too. Besides that, I don't know what else to do. Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks,
Mike
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Old 07-23-2003, 07:12 PM   #2
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Geeze, Im so sorry to hear about that.

Try doing frequent water changes to help bring the levels down some more.

Does he have any spots, or any sort of damage?

How big is your tank?
What is the pH?
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Old 07-23-2003, 07:17 PM   #3
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Hi WIZ561,

Sorry to hear about your fish's problem.

Fishyfarmacy has an online disease diagnosis tool that is very easy to use.
http://www.fishyfarmacy.com/Diseases...Disorders.html
By the sounds of the description you gave, I would guess 'Whirling Disease' or a swim bladder infection. Check the link for the symptoms and it has some suggestions for treatment.

HTH
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Old 07-23-2003, 07:41 PM   #4
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ich?

Hi,

Thanks for everybody's reply. The one link you provided mentions that it could be Quinine Sulfate, and it mentions something about "Ich". Is this what I have? Also, all the other fish (I have 5 others) look fine and absolutely no problems. Should I seperate the not so good one in another tank? Should I just treat them as if they have ich?


Thanks again,
Mike
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Old 07-24-2003, 12:27 AM   #5
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Couple of things could be going on.

I tend to agree with what targaboy suggested. I doubt its ich; fish usually show little white spots like salt crystals on their bodies, and they try to scratch them off, You don't mention either in your description of the illness.

Ammonia is deadly really at any level. Burns the gill tissue. Consequently stresses the heck outa the fish and makes em more susceptible to disease as well.

When you say the fish is rolling, what does it look like? Myxospora (known as the Whirling Disease) is when the fish loses equilibrium and sorta looks like its whirling when it swims. Are there any noticeable marks?

Could also be a swim bladder disorder; where the poor fish can't maintain equilibrium either. They usually wind up tail up like your guy. But they also generally are interested in still eating.

Either way, I'd get him out of the main tank and into a QT tank. Look up the 2 on the aforementioned website for better descriptions then mine and possible treatments.
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Old 07-24-2003, 06:17 PM   #6
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Qurantine Tank?

Hi! Thank you all for your posts; they are very helpful. 24 Hours later and the fish is still whirling around. :-( The fish do not have white spots on them at all and besides the one whirling around, everything looks normal.

The one question though....I don't really have much money and I don't have a QT. Is there anything I can improvise with? I could stick him in a bucket, but I think that might be too mean... That and there's no filtration. What do other people use as a QT and what can I use. Would it be better to just put him out of his misery? Is it possible he might pull through?

Thanks again for your help,
Mike
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Old 07-24-2003, 08:48 PM   #7
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Heh, now you know what to ask for for your B-day/Xmas/Channukah/Labor day LOL a QT tank.

You CAN use a largish bucket for a QT tank. Lots of peeps do. You will need to throw in an aerator; you can get away with no filter IF you vacuum the bottom/water change very very frequently. And test daily for ammonia. I'd suggest a new bucket tho, rinsed out well. Like, rinse it until you think its clean, then rinse again. Keep in mind, Walmart usually carries cheap 10g tanks (from $8-$10) which can cost as much as the bucket. I got one of those, a cheap hang on the back filter (it aerates the water as well cause it causes surface agitation) and thats my QT tank.

As for surviving...its hard to say. Again it would depend on what the illness is. If its swim bladder, theres a chance. Whirling disease, probably not. It certainly would be ok to at least try; if there no change in a few days after treatment I would probably euthanize.
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Old 07-24-2003, 10:35 PM   #8
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Final Thoughts...

Whelp, I decided to try to move the fish in a bucket, and about 15 minutes after he was in it, he decided to go belly up. Who knows, I'm sure he's probably happier now...

The last thing is that I was wondering how he could have died. I looked at him and he looked fine, but there were two things that were sort of strange. Number one, he was a little slimy. When I would catch bluegills in our local ponds/lakes, I remember that they were not slimy at all. This one was. Second, I have never really "examined" a fish before, but do they have tongues? I opened his mouth a little and he had this long white thing going from the almost tip of his mouth all the way back. I just thought that was strange. It looked like a tongue, but who knows...

I would just like to get a handle on this before the rest of my fish start doing this. Now I'm scared because I am going on a business trip next week and will be gone for almost a week! Hope my tank doesn't go south...


Thanks again for your help!
Mike
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Old 07-24-2003, 11:27 PM   #9
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Aw I'm sorry Its so hard to figure out whats wrong sometimes, especially since they can't tell us. It very well could have been brain damage from a falling rock as you mentioned initially. No way of being sure *sigh*

Not sure why he was slimy; it may have also been a symptom as fish will kick up slime coat production in the presence of an irritant. Some of the things which claim to help with slime coat do just that; irritate the fish a little so they produce more slime coat.

Fish do not have tongues like we do. That being said, they DO have a muscle of sorts in their mouths that look like tongues, but it doesn't have taste buds like you and me. Theres an article about it here: http://www.amonline.net.au/fishes/faq/tongue.htm

Will anyone be around to keep an eye on things while your away? Believe it or not, feeding would not be a major issue; fish can go for a week or so with no feedings and not starve to death. If you are having someone feed tho, let me suggest making daily food packages to prevent overfeeding and spiking your ammonia levels.

Oh, and Ammo-lock does not get rid of ammonia; it just converts it to a safer form. The levels you are getting might not be accurate, as most ammonia tests don't know the diff between the dangerous and the not dangerous ammonias.
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