fish treatment went wrong ?!?!?!?! - Aquarium Advice

MisticX · 07-02-2008, 09:32 AM

10-15 june, i observed a strange behavior on my fish, so i decided to start the ich treatment thru temperature rise.
16-19 june, the temp raised slowly from 76F to 88F
20 june, temp = 88F (NH=0 NO2=0 NO3=5 water clean and clear)
21 june anti parasitical (external) treatment
22-24 jun 3 fish died (1 black moli, 1 guppy, 1 silver moli)
24 jun T=88F NH=0.1 NO2=0.2 NO3=10
28 jun, ICH treatment (jungle labs ich clear)
29 jun PWV 30% (all conditions pristine NO3=5)
29 jun, loss 3 neons
30 jun, ICH treatment round 2
1 jul,
-- PWC 60%, -- Fungus clear (from jungle labs)all water conditions pristine NO3=5-10
2 jul,
-- PWC 90%, (morning)
-- re-inserted the sponges from the fridge into the filter
-- experiencing a small cycle
-- fish look better
-- PWC 50% (afternoon)
3 jul
-- PWC 50% (morning)
-- all tests are perfect

what should i do?
stop trying new medication?
stop the ICH treatment thru heat?
get all the fish out in another tank?

because after each treatment 2=3 more fish show the same symptomes
phase 1 round belly, like they ate a LOT
phase 2 (after 2-3 days) belly goes from concave to convex, fish stops eating, flashing against gravel
phase 3 (after 7-10 more days) fish shows disorientation, very fast breathing, flashing from time to time,
phase 4 (after 1-2 days) fish stops moving at all, breathes VERY slow, then dies ... all in 12 hours

MisticX · 07-02-2008, 09:42 AM

a couple of sidenotes

1. after the first fungus clear, the white spots on the fish completely disappeared.

2. the white spots were coming and going every 2-3-4 days during the ich-temp-treatment

3. ONLY females were hit by this disease (guppy moli plati)

4. after the PWC's theyr activity increases significantly, but after 12-24 hrs they drop again.

rich311k · 07-02-2008, 09:48 AM

The fact that they are happy after a PWC leads me to believe most of this is coming form not having a cycled tank.

It could be one of a thousand bugs, virus, bacteria. Just like people fish can get lots of different stuff. I think I would just change water every couple of days and watch. I think you have done what you can do.

MisticX · 07-02-2008, 09:53 AM

rich,
tank was cycles before the 20 jun... that is guaranteed, because i did not do a PWC before that for about 2 weeks, and every 3-4 days my water conditions were fine.

tank is established since February,finished cycling end of March.

NOW, after a fungus clear treatment, my tanks bacteria is dead ... that i am sure of... but before that, my tank was cycled.

sidenotes,
i have a VERY strong air current (cascade) in my tank.
i doubt that O2 is the problem.

BUT fish are from time to time going to surface and spending time there breathing.
like right now, all my gupy are together "schooling" (i know gupy dont school but still) at the surface against the water current generated by the air pump.

MisticX · 07-02-2008, 10:01 AM

what my guess is, is that the fish do not bear the high temp, so they go at the surface to get a drip in the colder water
could that explain the "stay at the surface" thing ??

**An t-iasg** · 07-02-2008, 10:40 AM

Usually fish gather at the surface when the oxygen in the water is low. Your air pump may not be sufficient to add more oxygen to the water. You said you have a strong air current but that may not be enough. The fish are gathering where the water current is stronger, right, so that most likely means they are trying to seek out an area with more oxygen.

Oxygen will dissolve (for lack of a better word) into the water when the water is agitated and turbulent. This agitation brings more water area into contact with the air, and then the oxygen in the air can pass into the water. A water pump would cause the splashing/turbulence that is needed, if you position it to break at the water's surface, more so than an airstone/airpump setup. An airstone bubbling through that water doesn't offer the same oxygen exchange that the agitation of the water would. Note: be careful not to let the water pump send a jet of water outside the tank!

What kind of filter do you have? If you have an HOB filter, just lower the water level in the tank a bit and the return flow will splash and cause some agitation. With a canister, you could lower the water a little bit below the spray bar.

MisticX · 07-02-2008, 01:48 PM

HOB, but i cannot use it because i have my media in it, and i still need that bacteria.

MisticX · 07-03-2008, 04:24 PM

the past 2.5 days i did major water changes (50-90%) every 12 hours,

the cause was a slow in the cycle, the ammonia wasn't transforming fast enough (remember i did a bacteria treatment) and the filter sponges (that were preserved outside the tank) could not support all the bioload by themselves.

the good news are
water is in pristine condition
none of the sick fish died
2 (the cory cats) have recovered and started eating
3 (the 2F and 1M guppy) have semi recovered but still not eating
the cycle is back to normal, i examine it every 6 hrs and the NH nI nA are 0 0 0-5

i am thinking to start decreasing the heat to normal. (am at 88F right now)

what do you guys think ?

**An t-iasg** · 07-04-2008, 12:01 AM

Your fish have been through a lot! You've worked hard to treat their illness. I would say that tomorrow you're good to begin to lower the water temperature back to normal.

lance · 07-04-2008, 03:23 AM

Water flow , they need water flow. Whats the tank size and whats used for water movement?

Stop changing the water. And if you dont mix the new batch up enough like overnight the freash salt can burn there gills.

Salt water fish get there O2 supply through a surface exchange at the surface.
Also is your tank covered?

07-02-2008, 09:32 AM	#1
MisticX Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Montreal QC CA Posts: 219	fish treatment went wrong ?!?!?!?! 10-15 june, i observed a strange behavior on my fish, so i decided to start the ich treatment thru temperature rise. 16-19 june, the temp raised slowly from 76F to 88F 20 june, temp = 88F (NH=0 NO2=0 NO3=5 water clean and clear) 21 june anti parasitical (external) treatment 22-24 jun 3 fish died (1 black moli, 1 guppy, 1 silver moli) 24 jun T=88F NH=0.1 NO2=0.2 NO3=10 28 jun, ICH treatment (jungle labs ich clear) 29 jun PWV 30% (all conditions pristine NO3=5) 29 jun, loss 3 neons 30 jun, ICH treatment round 2 1 jul, -- PWC 60%, -- Fungus clear (from jungle labs)all water conditions pristine NO3=5-10 2 jul, -- PWC 90%, (morning) -- re-inserted the sponges from the fridge into the filter -- experiencing a small cycle -- fish look better -- PWC 50% (afternoon) 3 jul -- PWC 50% (morning) -- all tests are perfect what should i do? stop trying new medication? stop the ICH treatment thru heat? get all the fish out in another tank? because after each treatment 2=3 more fish show the same symptomes phase 1 round belly, like they ate a LOT phase 2 (after 2-3 days) belly goes from concave to convex, fish stops eating, flashing against gravel phase 3 (after 7-10 more days) fish shows disorientation, very fast breathing, flashing from time to time, phase 4 (after 1-2 days) fish stops moving at all, breathes VERY slow, then dies ... all in 12 hours Last edited by MisticX; 07-03-2008 at 04:26 PM.

07-02-2008, 10:40 AM	#6
An t-iasg Aquarium Advice Addict Community Admin Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Criders Corners/Glen Eden (Pittsburgh, PA) Posts: 7,156 Images: 30	Usually fish gather at the surface when the oxygen in the water is low. Your air pump may not be sufficient to add more oxygen to the water. You said you have a strong air current but that may not be enough. The fish are gathering where the water current is stronger, right, so that most likely means they are trying to seek out an area with more oxygen. Oxygen will dissolve (for lack of a better word) into the water when the water is agitated and turbulent. This agitation brings more water area into contact with the air, and then the oxygen in the air can pass into the water. A water pump would cause the splashing/turbulence that is needed, if you position it to break at the water's surface, more so than an airstone/airpump setup. An airstone bubbling through that water doesn't offer the same oxygen exchange that the agitation of the water would. Note: be careful not to let the water pump send a jet of water outside the tank! What kind of filter do you have? If you have an HOB filter, just lower the water level in the tank a bit and the return flow will splash and cause some agitation. With a canister, you could lower the water a little bit below the spray bar. __________________

07-04-2008, 12:01 AM	#9
An t-iasg Aquarium Advice Addict Community Admin Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Criders Corners/Glen Eden (Pittsburgh, PA) Posts: 7,156 Images: 30	Your fish have been through a lot! You've worked hard to treat their illness. I would say that tomorrow you're good to begin to lower the water temperature back to normal. __________________

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

07-02-2008, 09:42 AM	#2
MisticX Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Montreal QC CA Posts: 219	a couple of sidenotes 1. after the first fungus clear, the white spots on the fish completely disappeared. 2. the white spots were coming and going every 2-3-4 days during the ich-temp-treatment 3. ONLY females were hit by this disease (guppy moli plati) 4. after the PWC's theyr activity increases significantly, but after 12-24 hrs they drop again.

07-02-2008, 09:48 AM	#3
rich311k Aquarium Advice Addict Moderator Emeritus Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 8,972 Images: 35	The fact that they are happy after a PWC leads me to believe most of this is coming form not having a cycled tank. It could be one of a thousand bugs, virus, bacteria. Just like people fish can get lots of different stuff. I think I would just change water every couple of days and watch. I think you have done what you can do.

07-02-2008, 09:53 AM	#4
MisticX Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Montreal QC CA Posts: 219	rich, tank was cycles before the 20 jun... that is guaranteed, because i did not do a PWC before that for about 2 weeks, and every 3-4 days my water conditions were fine. tank is established since February,finished cycling end of March. NOW, after a fungus clear treatment, my tanks bacteria is dead ... that i am sure of... but before that, my tank was cycled. sidenotes, i have a VERY strong air current (cascade) in my tank. i doubt that O2 is the problem. BUT fish are from time to time going to surface and spending time there breathing. like right now, all my gupy are together "schooling" (i know gupy dont school but still) at the surface against the water current generated by the air pump.

07-02-2008, 10:01 AM	#5
MisticX Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Montreal QC CA Posts: 219	what my guess is, is that the fish do not bear the high temp, so they go at the surface to get a drip in the colder water could that explain the "stay at the surface" thing ??

07-02-2008, 01:48 PM	#7
MisticX Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Montreal QC CA Posts: 219	HOB, but i cannot use it because i have my media in it, and i still need that bacteria.

07-03-2008, 04:24 PM	#8
MisticX Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Montreal QC CA Posts: 219	the past 2.5 days i did major water changes (50-90%) every 12 hours, the cause was a slow in the cycle, the ammonia wasn't transforming fast enough (remember i did a bacteria treatment) and the filter sponges (that were preserved outside the tank) could not support all the bioload by themselves. the good news are water is in pristine condition none of the sick fish died 2 (the cory cats) have recovered and started eating 3 (the 2F and 1M guppy) have semi recovered but still not eating the cycle is back to normal, i examine it every 6 hrs and the NH nI nA are 0 0 0-5 i am thinking to start decreasing the heat to normal. (am at 88F right now) what do you guys think ?

07-04-2008, 03:23 AM	#10
lance Aquarium Advice Freak Join Date: Jun 2008 Posts: 205	Water flow , they need water flow. Whats the tank size and whats used for water movement? Stop changing the water. And if you dont mix the new batch up enough like overnight the freash salt can burn there gills. Salt water fish get there O2 supply through a surface exchange at the surface. Also is your tank covered?