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Old 09-14-2006, 10:06 PM   #1
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GBR doesn't look like it is doing so good

So I noticed this yesterday and have been searching around the internet and the only thing I have turned up is a good way to explain what is going on.

Apathy

* Fish is lethargic.
* Fish "hangs" under the surface.
* Flee reflex is absent -- does not dodge fish net or other fish.


Those are basically exactly what is going on. He still dodges bigger things, but I can just tell he isn't as sharp as he normally is (swims into plants slightly, doesn't run when female GBR noses him).

He also still eats and swims around, but he just looks slower (normally he is like a hummingbird curious about everything).

All the other fish in the tank are doing fine, including the female GBR. This was during the day and there are plenty of plants producing O2 so I don't think it was a lack of oxygen.

Any idea's are welcome!
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Old 09-14-2006, 11:29 PM   #2
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Kind of sounds like a couple of mine in a way. I'm leaning towards gill flukes. I may treat 1 here shortly to see if it makes any difference. If it does, will treat the rest.
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Old 09-15-2006, 12:19 AM   #3
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Have you tested your parameters recently? Added anything new to the tank?
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Old 09-15-2006, 12:50 AM   #4
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Only thing I can think that really change is an extra CO2 bottle I added. Put the CO2 up to around 35ppm. That was this last weekend and I noticed him acting this way yesterday.

All water parameters are normal. However my KH went up to 7 and it had been staying around 6, possibly because the water became more acidic (eats the rock I have which ups the KH slowly) with more CO2. PH has remained around 6.8 since the addition of the CO2 bottle.

Today when I got home he was a little worse, doesn't seem to be swimming around much at all. Now he just kinda rests on the bottom and sits there, occasionally moving. I haven't noticed anything visually on him so I can rule out ich.
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Old 09-15-2006, 01:58 AM   #5
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Actually ich can be present without spots. It can be in the gills, but the fish will flash against things if that is the case usually. I don't use C02 so I can comment ont he affects an increase of C02 would have.

Did you have a ph swing when you first added the C02? You say your parameters are normal, I assume that means no ammonia or nitrite.
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Old 09-15-2006, 02:15 AM   #6
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Correct, no ammonia or nitrite and within the levels I want for nitrate and phosphates.

PH did swing when I first added CO2, but that was a while ago (about a month). The second bottle had a very minimal impact on the ph.

I don't see any flashing or rubbing against anything. But he is puffing his gills like mad and just kinda floating down at the bottom. I think the gills are a little on the pale side, but I can't be sure as I don't really recall seeing his before (compared to the color of my black phantom tetra's which are very red). Unfortunately, my female GBR won't stay still or puff her gills so I can't compare those either.
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Old 09-15-2006, 02:47 AM   #7
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See if any of this might be valid for your GBR....

http://www.fishdoc.co.uk/disease/flukes.htm

http://eric.petfish.net/flukes.htm

Also, I doubt it would be CO2. I keep mine at around 50, or a little higher. And the couple of GBR's that I have that are doing it, they also do it with no CO2 added. So I know it's not CO2. And also, the combo of Maracyn and Maracyn Two didn't have any affect on it either. Just in case you might have been thinking of that route.
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:16 AM   #8
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Yep, this paragraph describes it almost exactly:

Quote:
The fish response to the irritation caused by flukes is similar to any other irritant, whether it is parasites or chemical. Initially there will be rubbing and flashing. As the disease reaches a more advanced stage the fish will become lethargic - which is the point when some people think the problem has gone away. At a very advanced stage the fish will isolate itself and spend long periods laying on the bottom with its fins clamped to its body. Other signs may be skin cloudiness resulting from excess mucus production, skin hyperplasia, or focal reddening. A definite diagnosis can only be made via a skin scrape or gill biopsy. In large numbers, flukes will kill fish either directly, or indirectly through secondary infections.
Today he was by himself on the bottom, fins clamped vs yesterday where he hung out at the surface. I also noticed his body looked a little cloudier than normal as well. Since I only noticed it yesterday I may have missed the flashing and rubbing stage.

So should I start with a salt bath? or is there another treatments that would be better?

Also, how do you do a salt bath exactly?
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Old 09-15-2006, 11:53 AM   #9
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I'm still not sure how to do it myself, lol. What I may end up doing is treating with meds in a QT tank.
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Old 09-15-2006, 03:51 PM   #10
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Sadness, found him today turned upside down. Still no real visual problems, he just kind of up and died. My guess would be the fluke worms though.
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Old 09-15-2006, 05:03 PM   #11
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sorry to hear that CaptnIgnit. My condolences
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Old 09-15-2006, 09:15 PM   #12
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Sorry to hear that.
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Old 09-15-2006, 10:32 PM   #13
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Sorry to hear about him......
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